D&B Curves vs. 50 % Fill Gray Layer ???

[BigBlaze]

- What is the difference between using a Light/Dark curve vs. using a Layer fill with 50 % gray in soft light mode ?

- Is using multiple curves adjustment layers better than using 50% gray layers for high end retouching?

- Using the curve, I have to build a set of 4 layers: light curve, dark curve, high contrast curve and hue/saturation layer for desaturation. How do you save this set ? Do you create a action ?

- How do you toggle between layers fast ? Do you know a keyboard shortcut ?

Thank you,

http://www.jeannichols.com/

[DannyRaphael]

First of all welcome. I see you joined RP awhile back and this is your first post. Congratulations on taking that step!

I divided your original questions into different threads (blend modes, WACOM setup and these questions) to increase the likelihood of getting replies. It's usually a better tactic to have multiple threads vs. one with several more-or-less unrelated questions.

For easy addition of multiple adjustment layers, recording an action to do this is an excellent idea.

Keyboard shortcuts for switching between layers:
* alt + ] to move focus to next layer up
* alt + [ to move focus to next layer down

This should get the ball rolling on other replies.

[DannyRaphael]

I meant to add...

I personally prefer multiple adjustment layers over a layer filled with 50% grey then painting (airbrush setting) with white or black. For me it is easier to control the outcome, plus adjustment layers do not add to the file size of the image.

[cricket1961]

Hello BigBlaze

Check out my blog. I have a post on this subject.

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/blogs/cricket1961/

Chris

[BigBlaze]

Dear Chris,

When talking about soft light you mean the blending mode of the layer ?

Thank you,

BigBlaze

[KR1156]

option > ] works great to toggle between layeres if you're a lefty.

-anyone have a custom key command set up to switch between layeres, i think Markzebra mentioned somethign about that in the past....mark if you're reading can you help with that or if anyone else has any input.

i had hotkeys at my old job, but not at home.

[cricket1961]

BigBlaze

Yes I do mean the blending mode of the layer.

Chris

[BigBlaze]

Chris, If I get that right, you do your D+B on a SoftLight layer fill with 50% grey ? You don't use the curve Light/Dark ?

Thank you for your patience, french is my primary language.

BigBlaze

[shellby]

Hello

When I work from home I use 50% grey layer to do skin

When I go into studios in London most of them request that I use the curves method as this is more widely known and used here in the UK.

[byRo]

[Philosophy]
When qualified people give you multiple answers to the same question, it's probably because there isn't just one correct answer
[/Philosophy]

shelby summed it up...

Originally Posted by shellby

..When I work from home I use 50% grey layer to do skin

When I go into studios in London most of them request that I use the curves method as this is more widely known and used here in the UK.

..another thing....

Originally Posted by DannyRaphael

....plus adjustment layers do not add to the file size of the image.

Danny, that's almost true....
A simple adjustment layer will not have any significant size overhead. But in this case we will be painting on the mask. Thus, we will be generating a channel for this information. Photoshop will try to optimize this channel, a few localized strokes will not generate a full image, but adjustmente over the whole image will fill up a channel.
If you use two adjustment layers then you will be generating two channels, compared with the 50% grey (in RGB mode) will have three channels.

Now to reply to the original question

Originally Posted by Chris' Blog

But I have yet to come up with one good reason not to use the fill.

Maybe not exactly good, but.....
A soft-light blend will never affect pure white or pure black, and even if it isn't pure you're going to need a lot more D&B. Maybe you're lucky to only get good images to retouch where such extremes don't happen.

In general, I stick with two levels layers with no changes on the black/white point, just fixing the appropriate output level to 50% - although I will agree that, by doing this I must forfeit the highlight/midtone/shadow control of the D&B tools.

Rô

[cricket1961]

Good explanation Ro

I do get some good images to work on, however, the majority of them can be quite ... nasty in terms of skin condition and sometimes exposure.
However, I don't ever get skin that has pure white and or black in it. And if I did, I would attack that problem in a different way.

I rarely if ever use the dual curve adjustment layer technique mostly because curves moves in such a non-linear way. The colors just tend to move differently and introduce contamination along the way.

Chris

[edgework]

I've tried double layer methods and don't like them. For me, D & B is a gradual process, building up the effect with multiple strokes. At times, a given area will require lightening and darkening in close proximity. With a single layer, a lighten stroke, however it is generated, does precisely that with no conflicting influence. With multiple layers, it's possible to have both working on the same region in ways that produce unexpected and unwanted artifacts. You find yourself trying to darken a spot and it just won't do what you want. You check the mask of the other layer and a stroke added many steps back is in the way. With a single layer, you are connected directly to the task at hand, lightening and darkening, without having to worry about technical glitches.

[byRo]

Originally Posted by cricket1961

....because curves moves in such a non-linear way. The colors just tend to move differently and introduce contamination along the way.

Agreed, Chris, when using RGB-mode soft-light D&B on skin, the colour is more natural; the highlights get less saturated and the shadows more so.

However, non-organic surfaces will react differently, with less variation in saturation. So for these it would seem that Lab mode works best.

I posted a little experiment below, applying a shadowed greyscale ball to a skin-toned fill layer.
Maybe I did something wrong, but it seems that the adjustment layers made a big mess.

Rô

[BigBlaze]

In conclusion, painting with a soft brush (white or dark) on a layer in softlight blending mode fill with 50% grey is the best option for skin retouching.

Please tell me about brush opacity and flow.

- low opacity 5 to 25% and flow set to 100% ?

Thank you to senior members and moderators for your recommendations.

BigBlaze

[Markzebra]

Shellby said it right, in fact here they seem to think dual curves its the only way to do it, They are usually called D or L. If they catch you doing anything else then there are the technically challenged that will think you dont know what your doing.

There really is no Better or Worse way.. the advantage with Ovlay or softlight is that it allows the painting of colour particularly useful when trying to hit back very desaturated highlights - BUT YOU CAN STILL SET UP A DARKEN CURVE that will do the same thing. You've just got to either adjust the colour curves as well as the composite. Another method that is used very often is to Group a Hue/Saturation layer with your darken Curve - this allows you to set any colour you want. Its horses for courses, There are even people that started in the old houses that still do it dodge and burn tools on flat pixels though

And yes its very easy to set up an action, one to activate your D curve and one to activate your L curve, just got to make sure you name them the same each time.