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Amazing skin, only degrunge?

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  #31  
Old 03-31-2008, 08:27 AM
JavierT JavierT is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Thanks Olbaldy for this interesting post. I have a lot of work to do with it.

Sometimes I have a little problem to understand english expressions which makes me doubt. I will read your post quitely and after this I will ask for that expressións. Can I?

Chris, I think the same, maybe we have to create a new thread for that different items/techniques that KR have suggested. And I Agree with you that people normally don´t show much interest in things different than skin. For example: In photocompositing I always see the same threads and, perhaps, one new. Isn´t it?
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  #32  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:35 PM
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cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daviskw View Post

I have seen examples on this site that when de-grunge was used are just as good, if not better in some cases, then the work of the self proclaimed experts.

Absolute perfection in skin is very over-rated by some on this site. Check for yourself…get a good fashion magazine and as you turn the pages pay close attention to every model and their skin.



Butch
Butch

I am not knocking Ro's degrunge technique. Every tool has its place. I have found with the images I work on that it doesn't help. But if, as you say, there are examples of the degrunge done on this forum that are also done with a technique used by "self proclaimed experts" and looks better I'd love to see them. I am always open to using tools in different ways and maybe I have tried the degrunge style incorrectly. (By the way, who are these self proclaimed experts so I might look for some of their work myself?)

Looking at the shots in magazines is a great way to see what the hot style is out there, or what level or photography/retouching is necessary to get ahead in this field. However it is best kept in mind that the retouching one sees is also how far the photographer or art director wishes it to go. Some go further and some not enough. To us, some of it looks bad but to whoever ok'd it it was what they wanted.
I don't think anyone has advocated absolute perfection when it comes to skin. Mostly people have wanted to know how to keep a natural texture and how to go about doing that. And one thing that is pretty consistent with photographers and art directors is that they don't want skin that has been rushed or that looks retouched. There is a place for Beauty retouching and a place for Glamour retouching.

Regards

Chris
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  #33  
Old 03-31-2008, 12:55 PM
Hendrik Hendrik is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Well, a lot of discussion, .. nice.

Chris, I loved your website, inspirational!

... but I also noticed the other 'experts' don't have one. Ant for example is mentioned as a great retoucher, but what is his website or portfolio? and who are the other experts and their websites?
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:12 PM
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pixel_monkey pixel_monkey is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

All the work I've done at work I only have permission to show them in my printed portfolio, but not online. Some retouchers would only show their work to prospective clients and some retouchers would only show the finished work on their website for good reasons, such as there are people out there that would actually steal their work or link their work all over the net behind their back.
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  #35  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:50 PM
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Daviskw Daviskw is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Quote:
I am not knocking Ro's degrunge technique. Every tool has its place. I have found with the images I work on that it doesn't help. But if, as you say, there are examples of the degrunge done on this forum that are also done with a technique used by "self proclaimed experts" and looks better I'd love to see them. I am always open to using tools in different ways and maybe I have tried the degrunge style incorrectly. (By the way, who are these self proclaimed experts so I might look for some of their work myself?)

Looking at the shots in magazines is a great way to see what the hot style is out there, or what level or photography/retouching is necessary to get ahead in this field. However it is best kept in mind that the retouching one sees is also how far the photographer or art director wishes it to go. Some go further and some not enough. To us, some of it looks bad but to whoever ok'd it it was what they wanted.
I don't think anyone has advocated absolute perfection when it comes to skin. Mostly people have wanted to know how to keep a natural texture and how to go about doing that. And one thing that is pretty consistent with photographers and art directors is that they don't want skin that has been rushed or that looks retouched. There is a place for Beauty retouching and a place for Glamour retouching.

Regards

Chris
Hi Chris

I came off much too harsh and that was not my intent and my post was not directed at any individual…I apologize if it was taken that way.

Over the last year or two there have been many requests of skin technique with many posted examples. Most all had posters using de-grunge as part of their technique. I personally found their work to be generally on the same level as strictly D&B or other so-called professional techniques… this is the so-called I was talking about… I did not state that correctly in my previous post... I was trying to say technique not people. Techniques are not professional… the people using them can be.

I find the technique to be fast and effective especially when used on less than perfect blotchy skin. At least as a foundation to further use traditional procedures.

This is not to say it could not be done as well or better with traditional techniques after hours of work. If I can do acceptable work faster with a technique I will use it over established procedures.

All techniques were new at one time or another and they received their share of resistance.

I guess I just hated to see the OP discouraged from experimenting with an excellent tool, in certain circumstances, because it was not considered professional.

I’ll choose my words a lot more carefully in the future… this is a good forum for open discussion without the sniping that often occurs elsewhere. When I re-read my post I can sure see how it could be taken in the wrong way.

Butch

Last edited by Daviskw; 03-31-2008 at 08:32 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:52 PM
JavierT JavierT is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

I think that Natalia Taffarel is considered as Hi End Retoucher and I have seen her using De-grunge in her workflow, very subtle, but use it. I don´t know if she is always applying that technique. Anyway, she doesn´t use it like "the way to quick fix". Is only a subtle move of a lot in her workflow.

I think there is no "quick key" to get profesional results.
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  #37  
Old 03-31-2008, 04:37 PM
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superkoax superkoax is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
Well, a lot of discussion, .. nice.

Chris, I loved your website, inspirational!

... but I also noticed the other 'experts' don't have one. Ant for example is mentioned as a great retoucher, but what is his website or portfolio? and who are the other experts and their websites?
he has a website...ask him
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2008, 05:58 PM
CaptainHook CaptainHook is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket1961 View Post
The problem I see is that there is rarely anyone asking to see this kind of stuff and this forum is driven by questions from people and not the other way around.
But there is also the issue of people not knowing what questions to ask.
Who's gonna ask about under color removal or gray color removal
when they don't know it exists?

A list like KR's is a good way to make people aware of such things
to begin asking questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket1961 View Post
This discussion should be moved to its own thread so that it doesn't distract from the posters question really.
If it hasn't happened already, kick it off Chris.
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2008, 06:05 PM
pixelzombie pixelzombie is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHook View Post
But there is also the issue of people not knowing what questions to ask.
Who's gonna ask about under color removal or gray color removal
when they don't know it exists?
i mentioned the term UCR to my younger co-worker (who has a bachelors degree in photography)..she asked what that was and i replied i'd let her know in time, in all fairness to her she's worked in a photo lab for the past 10 years and has little knowledge of pre-press and printing...
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2008, 06:07 PM
CaptainHook CaptainHook is offline
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Re: Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by superkoax View Post
he has a website...ask him
I don't really think Ant wants a bunch of people asking for his website/work etc.
Otherwise he would make it available in his profile or something.
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