Amazing skin, only degrunge?

Hendrik · #1 03-25-2008, 04:35 PM

I have a question for the skin experts. I have sampled some skins with, in my opinion, very nice retouching. It seems the skin is intact with very fine detail, but without the blemishes.

I’m familiar with the degrunge technique. My question is, is this only done with the degrunge technique and selective sharpening (eyes, mouth) or are there additional techniques aplied?

Please your opinion.

example: http://www.xs4all.nl/~honey/fotograf...kin_smooth.jpg

grannysdc · #2 03-26-2008, 04:40 AM

DeGrunge, if used at all, on resulted beautiful skin is generally used in the beginning process to alleviate some of the major, obvious, outstanding problems that DeGrunging can solve.. Tis only 1 tool out of many used to achieve the results provided in your samples.. Although handy at times, it is not the cure all One Button Fix.

There is a lot more processes involved other than applying an astringent to clear the skin.. Makeup (color adjustments) and blending (D&B) also help achieve the illusion of beauty and good skin to start with is definitely a PLUS!

Just my thoughts

Hendrik · #3 03-26-2008, 12:04 PM

Thank you for your reply.

If you want to achieve this effect, what additional steps would you take?

[btw, I linked the image, because it's too large for this board (500k)]

0lBaldy · #4 03-26-2008, 12:31 PM

~~I will help with the resize..~~ You are correct there were artifacts introduced in the compression I had on here..

but let those with much more knowledge than I, answer your question .. (Which BTW has been asked in a variety of ways on this forum)..

The search button above may be more help than I could ever give

Hendrik · #5 03-26-2008, 03:15 PM

Thank you for your resize, but the reason I didn't choose a smaller version or higher compression is to keep the example in high quality for better judgment. I have almost unlimited bandwith so this is no problem.

Back on topic, I know there are various topics on skin retouch, but I want to try to determine the technique specifically used in the example I linked.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~honey/fotograf...kin_smooth.jpg

Ant · #6 03-26-2008, 04:07 PM

In technical terms, it's called the Awful Bad Technique. You blur heavily, remove shape and texture and then high pass texture over the top with a lot of excessive sharpening after so you get that really sandpaper like texture to go with your 1997 CG model look. Throw in a touch of straight up airbrushing to make the skin completely without change in tone and color. Sometimes you can throw some noise in as well if it's not gritty enough for you. Basically, what you are after is pancake makeup mixed with cement, paint and sand and then baked at 700 degrees for an hour. Hope that helps.

Now go get your eyes checked. I know it may have been awhile since you've seen an actual woman in person and up close, but maybe look at a photograph if the restraining orders prevent you from doing so.

jam1212 · #7 03-26-2008, 04:50 PM

Ant is right.

I would highly recommend not pursuing this technique, as it only leads to a dead-end. It might get results that you like now, but in a bit after you've gotten better at retouching you'll look back on it and realize how fake it all looks.

I would suggest finding posts about Dodge and Burn (D&B) for a more professional approach. This is a much more powerful (not to mention professional) tool. To see how it's used within an entire workflow, check out this post:

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...y-retouch.html

It'll give you a good idea of a pretty professional workflow. Hope that helps!

Markzebra · #8 03-26-2008, 07:05 PM

Yeah and look at that video too if a professional workflow is a completely unworkable flat file. This is so you learn how to deal with the situation when the client comes back next day and says, "sorry mate her skin looks like someone painted Dulux Summer breeze 250 all over her face, you need to do that again, and we need it before 6", you will have to rework the whole thing from scratch. Good luck

pixelzombie · #9 03-26-2008, 07:16 PM

markzebra brings up a good point, i've seen a few guys who don't know/like to work in layers, which is a major PAIN when picking up their files and trying to move forward or in some cases backwards...

cricket1961 · #10 03-26-2008, 08:38 PM

Hendrik

I understand that you like what you saw and thats ok if its what you are looking for.
It looks like it was blurred a lot, the detail recaptured with a mask, a noise layer added to the top of that and the opacity modified, then the original shot was pasted into a layer above it, opacity lowered to retain some of the "noise" below it.
Then it looks like they did a merge up of the layers and retained the detail mask. On that layer it looks like the emboss filter was run and then the highpass filter used to sharpen the whole image.

Again if this is what you like good luck.

But if you are trying to learn retouching towards a certain "look" or "style" please don't use it for paying work. Use it to learn what works and what does not work. Any info is good info because it will tell you what to use and what to avoid. Part of the techniques you learn from this might be good individually but it is doubtful they will be good as a whole.

Good Luck again.

Chris

CaptainHook · #11 03-27-2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant

In technical terms, it's called the Awful Bad Technique. You blur heavily, remove shape and texture and then high pass texture over the top with a lot of excessive sharpening after so you get that really sandpaper like texture to go with your 1997 CG model look. Throw in a touch of straight up airbrushing to make the skin completely without change in tone and color. Sometimes you can throw some noise in as well if it's not gritty enough for you. Basically, what you are after is pancake makeup mixed with cement, paint and sand and then baked at 700 degrees for an hour. Hope that helps.

Now go get your eyes checked. I know it may have been awhile since you've seen an actual woman in person and up close, but maybe look at a photograph if the restraining orders prevent you from doing so.

See, now that's what it's about. Putting in the effort in everything you do.
Even if it's a comment on bad retouching in the form of a hilarious post.

Chris says the same thing in much more diplomatic way.
Gotta appreciate both.

yangez · #12 03-27-2008, 09:09 AM

No one can live up to professional standards in the beginning. Learning is a process of finding out what works and doesn't work for you. If, in doing that, someone wants to learn a few techniques that wouldn't be considered "professional," you shouldn't be bashed for it.

Ant quite possibly may be a badass. But he doesn't need to prove it by ridiculing OP when all he asked is a simple question.

Quote:

To reiterate some of Doug's observations: We WELCOME new threads, questions, issues, etc. There are many RetouchPRO members who are ready and willing to help or advise -- in all forums, not just this one that focuses on manipulation.

Rookies, newbies and those with little experience take note: There's no shame being at or near the bottom of the learning curve, regardless of the topic of interest. All the "old pros" started at the same place you did: The Beginning.

So if you're sitting on a question, why not take a leap of faith and start a thread? There's no risk. You won't lose your job -- unless you're at work, posting on company time and get caught! Be assured you won't get bashed, hassled or laughed at like you did at school or perhaps other online venues. We do "respect" well here at RetouchPRO.

I believe you will be pleasantly surprised and there's a great chance will learn something.
__________________
~Danny~

Hendrik · #13 03-27-2008, 03:00 PM

Thank you for all responses. I think ANT has something to compensate, so I forgive his constructive reply.

I'm always looking for better techniques. I'm not a pro retoucher and I have still many thinks to learn. I confess I have used degrunge a few times and was amazed how quickly you can clean the skin.

Maybe the examples are a bit too clean and the texture too regular.

It seems you all agree dodging and burning is a better technique and after seeing the movie linked, many steps are necessary for better skin. I will take a look into all your suggestions. Thanks!

pixelzombie · #14 03-27-2008, 03:35 PM

i think Ant summed it up quite well, i've never been able to use any sort of de-grundge technique with any success..it never seems to look right...

skydog · #15 03-27-2008, 08:48 PM

I always enjoy Ant's comment and frankness...he is always "right on"...so I always give him a "A" for is assessment. On the otherhand, I very seldom see any constructive help. I guess we must take the good with the bad. I'm sure Ant you know a lot, but you sure don't share it. I'm sure you've spend years and years learning and probably have taken your share of criticism..and you probably have signed some sort of secrecy agreement, but for God's sakes it would be nice if you could share a practice or a resource or something. Thank God for individuals like Chris, but Ant, I do miss you when you aren't around...your comments are always amusing!