D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

[Hendrik]

Hello All, I’m trying the Dodge and Burn technique to get better skin. I use the image from this thread, the same as in the Dodge & Burn technique tutorial. http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...n-retouch.html

I understand Dodge and the dark parts of the skin are easily lightened with this technique, but I have some difficulties with the Burn part.

When you make a curve adjustment layer as is shown in the tutorial, you only can change the midtones. The highlights in the skin are not changed. When I try to do that, you will get a bright dot with a dark border around it, as is expected of course.

I have two questions:

#1 How is Burn used? Do you leave the highlights in the skin untouched?

#2 When I use a Wacom tablet, do you set the brush to ‘other dynamics’ (= pressure changes opacity?)

Thank you.

Dodge and Burn tutorial: http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=272

[Hendrik]

? Well, this is not a strange question is it?

[yangez]

hi Hendrik,

I am by no means an expert at all, but I'm able to achieve results that at this point I find acceptable. To my understanding, the highlights are still changed by burn (unless they're completely blown out to white or near-white, in that case you'll have to handle that with a different method). You might want to increase the intensity in your burn layer. If you don't want a dark circle around your burn work, then make sure to use a really small brush and burn the highlight without hitting the surrounding darker pixels. The basic idea is to minimize variation in the skin.

My wacom is set when doing d&b to only Other Dynamics on Flow. Shape Dynamics doesnt give me enough control, and, besides, I use the slider to change brush size anyways. Hope that starts the responses off, let me know how this works for you.

[flice]

I normally use:

1. Create empty layer above background (non-destructive)
2. Fill layer with 50% gray and set the layer to "Overlay"
3. Choose dodge tool
4. Dodge darker tones, hold alt key down on highlights to burn
5. Flatten after D&B'ing for a while
6. Save image
7. Repeat step 1-6 until done

Depending on how dark or light the area is you might need a few more passes to even out the spot. Alternatively set the dodge tool to "highlights" or "shadows" accordingly.

About the wacom settings... I use mine without anything turned on :P

[mayday]

Hi Hendrik,
It's really for evening out the general skin tones but still maintaining some skin texture you probably want to keep extreme highlights in most cases you dont want to remove all detail.
If you really need to remove some highlights you could create a steep curve for that.

[smak]

>>>>>>> When you make a curve adjustment layer as is shown in the tutorial, you only can change the midtones.

You can make another curve adjustment layer for highlights then.
I think the real skill is in the brushing - opacities, softness, sizes, build up. The layers set up is less important.

[snook305]

Originally Posted by flice

I normally use:

1. Create empty layer above background (non-destructive)
2. Fill layer with 50% gray and set the layer to "Overlay"
3. Choose dodge tool
4. Dodge darker tones, hold alt key down on highlights to burn
5. Flatten after D&B'ing for a while
6. Save image
7. Repeat step 1-6 until done

Depending on how dark or light the area is you might need a few more passes to even out the spot. Alternatively set the dodge tool to "highlights" or "shadows" accordingly.

About the wacom settings... I use mine without anything turned on :P

Just wondering what the difference is by using the Dodge tool on a softlight or overlay layer rather than a brush with white and black pressing x to switch back an forth from Burn to Dodge?
I was taught that the Dodge and burn tool are more destructive this way?
Is it not true on a 50% Grey layer?
Thanks for any further info..
Also if you paint on a 50% grey layer but with color instead of B or W does it effect it differently?
??
I am quite happy with the 50% softlight with Brush and B or W ink at low opacity..
Snook

[flice]

Hi Snook

The thing is that the dodge tool I find is more subtle in its use. I do notice that when I use it clean on the skin layer that you get the redness or greyness pretty fast, but when using the grey layer the effect seems softer and at 2-3% you get the result you need for most skin uneveness.

The only reason I don't use the curves layer with a curve for dodge and curve for burn is because I don't see a need for having two layers I need to switch between when I can do it in one.
In generel the curves layer idea annoys me because you have to tweak it for individual images, you don't have to with the grey layer. You just do one pass less or one pass more.

I haven't tried painting with color on a 50% layer. It's probably the same thing, just what you find is easiest.
I forgot to mention that Work with whatever technique you like... it's free to take advice, and you choose to keep what ever you want I found that the D&B on grey gives me great speed, and that's what I need to get past 1 image a day to 2-3 images a day.

[mayday]

The actual Dodge and burn tools change exposure so they are slighty different

[JayNads]

Painting with color on a 50% layer does have an effect - use the complimentary color to reduce a color's appearance - ie: paint with bright cyan to reduce the redness and lighten the veins in eyes.

[mayday]

Also when using softlight to D&B its good to use a dark colour from the hairline rather than black, as this will match the skin tone better

[edgework]

Originally Posted by snook305

Just wondering what the difference is by using the Dodge tool on a softlight or overlay layer rather than a brush with white and black pressing x to switch back an forth from Burn to Dodge?
I was taught that the Dodge and burn tool are more destructive this way?
Is it not true on a 50% Grey layer?
Thanks for any further info..
Also if you paint on a 50% grey layer but with color instead of B or W does it effect it differently?
??
I am quite happy with the 50% softlight with Brush and B or W ink at low opacity..
Snook

That's my approach, though I skip the "Fill with Grey" step since it has no effect. Having a layer for highlights and a layer for shadows means you can wind up trying to fix pixels with one layer that have already been affected by the other one. Switching back and forth from white to black (or whatever tones you are using) using the X key means that you lighten when you want to lighten and darken when you want to darken.

When I'm trying to affect overall shading, I'll use a large brush in Soft light mode, but when I'm working on small imperfections, I use a brush at 5% opacity, pressure sensitive and Hard Light mode. Soft light and Overlay stop working as the underlying pixels approach white and black. Again, Hard Light gives me a nice predictable result.

[DiamondsDr47]

...plus another benefit i have better visual reference with it.
Best regards,
Edgar