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D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

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  #1  
Old 04-05-2008, 02:31 AM
Hendrik Hendrik is offline
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D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

Hello All, I’m trying the Dodge and Burn technique to get better skin. I use the image from this thread, the same as in the Dodge & Burn technique tutorial. http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...n-retouch.html

I understand Dodge and the dark parts of the skin are easily lightened with this technique, but I have some difficulties with the Burn part.

When you make a curve adjustment layer as is shown in the tutorial, you only can change the midtones. The highlights in the skin are not changed. When I try to do that, you will get a bright dot with a dark border around it, as is expected of course.

I have two questions:

#1 How is Burn used? Do you leave the highlights in the skin untouched?

#2 When I use a Wacom tablet, do you set the brush to ‘other dynamics’ (= pressure changes opacity?)

Thank you.

Dodge and Burn tutorial: http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=272
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:14 PM
Hendrik Hendrik is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

? Well, this is not a strange question is it?
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:03 PM
yangez yangez is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

hi Hendrik,

I am by no means an expert at all, but I'm able to achieve results that at this point I find acceptable. To my understanding, the highlights are still changed by burn (unless they're completely blown out to white or near-white, in that case you'll have to handle that with a different method). You might want to increase the intensity in your burn layer. If you don't want a dark circle around your burn work, then make sure to use a really small brush and burn the highlight without hitting the surrounding darker pixels. The basic idea is to minimize variation in the skin.

My wacom is set when doing d&b to only Other Dynamics on Flow. Shape Dynamics doesnt give me enough control, and, besides, I use the slider to change brush size anyways. Hope that starts the responses off, let me know how this works for you.
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:05 AM
flice flice is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

I normally use:

1. Create empty layer above background (non-destructive)
2. Fill layer with 50% gray and set the layer to "Overlay"
3. Choose dodge tool
4. Dodge darker tones, hold alt key down on highlights to burn
5. Flatten after D&B'ing for a while
6. Save image
7. Repeat step 1-6 until done

Depending on how dark or light the area is you might need a few more passes to even out the spot. Alternatively set the dodge tool to "highlights" or "shadows" accordingly.

About the wacom settings... I use mine without anything turned on :P
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:47 PM
mayday mayday is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

Hi Hendrik,
It's really for evening out the general skin tones but still maintaining some skin texture you probably want to keep extreme highlights in most cases you dont want to remove all detail.
If you really need to remove some highlights you could create a steep curve for that.
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Old 06-02-2008, 04:00 PM
smak smak is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

>>>>>>> When you make a curve adjustment layer as is shown in the tutorial, you only can change the midtones.

You can make another curve adjustment layer for highlights then.
I think the real skill is in the brushing - opacities, softness, sizes, build up. The layers set up is less important.
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:02 PM
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snook305 snook305 is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flice View Post
I normally use:

1. Create empty layer above background (non-destructive)
2. Fill layer with 50% gray and set the layer to "Overlay"
3. Choose dodge tool
4. Dodge darker tones, hold alt key down on highlights to burn
5. Flatten after D&B'ing for a while
6. Save image
7. Repeat step 1-6 until done

Depending on how dark or light the area is you might need a few more passes to even out the spot. Alternatively set the dodge tool to "highlights" or "shadows" accordingly.

About the wacom settings... I use mine without anything turned on :P
Just wondering what the difference is by using the Dodge tool on a softlight or overlay layer rather than a brush with white and black pressing x to switch back an forth from Burn to Dodge?
I was taught that the Dodge and burn tool are more destructive this way?
Is it not true on a 50% Grey layer?
Thanks for any further info..
Also if you paint on a 50% grey layer but with color instead of B or W does it effect it differently?
??
I am quite happy with the 50% softlight with Brush and B or W ink at low opacity..
Snook
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Old 06-03-2008, 01:52 AM
flice flice is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

Hi Snook

The thing is that the dodge tool I find is more subtle in its use. I do notice that when I use it clean on the skin layer that you get the redness or greyness pretty fast, but when using the grey layer the effect seems softer and at 2-3% you get the result you need for most skin uneveness.

The only reason I don't use the curves layer with a curve for dodge and curve for burn is because I don't see a need for having two layers I need to switch between when I can do it in one.
In generel the curves layer idea annoys me because you have to tweak it for individual images, you don't have to with the grey layer. You just do one pass less or one pass more.

I haven't tried painting with color on a 50% layer. It's probably the same thing, just what you find is easiest.
I forgot to mention that Work with whatever technique you like... it's free to take advice, and you choose to keep what ever you want I found that the D&B on grey gives me great speed, and that's what I need to get past 1 image a day to 2-3 images a day.
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2008, 01:57 AM
mayday mayday is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

The actual Dodge and burn tools change exposure so they are slighty different
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:53 AM
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JayNads JayNads is offline
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Re: D&B, for skin only Dodge, Burn not used?

Painting with color on a 50% layer does have an effect - use the complimentary color to reduce a color's appearance - ie: paint with bright cyan to reduce the redness and lighten the veins in eyes.
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