[grygarness]

Hi all

I think levels of skills and professional standards vary from region to region, and within different parts of the industry, and you have to be very specific about the level of skills you want to achieve. If you compare a 'hight street' portrait photographer who does their own retouching for private clients at an affordable price with a high-end retoucher who retouches for advertising and fashion on massive budgets, you are looking at two completely different worlds. Let me give you an example of the latter. In 2003 a photography student at a London college started doing some 1-1 training with me because she was not happy with the Photoshop training she received at the college. I could see immediately that she had talent, and we did a session every 3 months or so until she graduated in 2005. By then she was very competent at the Pen Tool, brush skills etc. and her general Photoshop skills were pretty solid. She decided to get work as a retoucher and started looking for work at various studios around London: Taylor James, Saddington & Baynes, Happy Finish.... She got a trainee job at Happy Finish in November 2005 and has worked incredibly hard there. 10-12 hour days and often weekends. After 2 years she was considered a fully fledged retoucher (although her work isn't up on the website yet http://www.happyfinish.net/). It's taken her 5 years to get there. By comparison my path was very different. I worked 14 years as a hairdresser and hair & make-up artist. I then worked 10 years as a photographer, and did all my own printing. I was taught Photoshop privately by a 'guru' within the field, and then left to my own devices, reading every book on Photoshop and comparing techniques a lot with experienced retoucher friends from Getty. I started retouching my own work for commissions, and then was asked by design companies to retouch for other photographers. I retouch a lot under supervision, and this is very disciplining, because you have to be efficient and justify every move, when the client is sitting next to you. Sometimes this becomes a hybrid of training and retouching, and I don't mind. I charge the same.

Are there any schools that train retouching? Maybe somewhere... But let me put it differently? Would anyone who spent 4-5 years getting to the top level through apprenticeship (or sheer resourcefulness) want to teach at a college, with the salary they pay? Not me. I train specific courses, but to train at a college for £30 per hour? I don't think any highly skilled professional would do that on a regular basis, every week. So my advice is to find the right level you want to aim at. Befriend people within the industry in your area. Magazines might need some help – they are usually big enough to cater for a work placement. Read all the relevant books – the good ones, the bad ones... and compare. They all have some merit. Set aside at least 3 hours a day to practice. Above all, use good, sharp, hi-res images to work on, and aim to keep it real. --- Gry Garness
Adobe Certified Expert, Photoshop

Author of:
Essential Color Optimization in Photoshop CS3
Essential Color Management
Digital Retouching for Fashion, Beauty and Portrait Photography
http://www.grygarness.com/

[Markzebra]

She accepted Happy's insulting "beginners" rate for 5 years then? thats durability alright.

[grygarness]

No – she was only a trainee there for 2 years but the whole learning process (through college etc.) took almost 5 years. But still a long journey. She's doing very well now though, and being amply rewarded.

[Markzebra]

Yep I heard they promised big things to many people. Unfortunately I've met at least a few that came out very un-happy. As a result theres a bit of a bad name now circulating about that particular collection of retouchers. Fact is most of the happiest happy's there were given a tremendous opportunity early on at places like Metro, when basic skills were still at a premium. They themselves had no problem earning good money while they were learning, and then left taking the clients they were put in touch with through Metro with them. And its all about clients.

There are a lot more people out there now, with the basic skills but that doesn't justify exploitation wages for people with more than 3 or 4 years. Unfortunately when theres a lot of spade work to do (paths,skin) and you match that with a huge quantity of people all looking for an apportunity, then you can see why this kind of thing begins to happen. These aren't the old Union days though

[BadM0j0]

If I had enough interest... I might start some courses... I'm based in Montreal. What do you think... would anybody be interested?

Roger Lafontaine
www.lafontaineillustration.com

[mac monkey]

I have to say I don't rate Happy Finish at all. Their last attempt at retouching the Harvey Nic's campaign was pretty poor. I agree with you Mark, there are a lot more people out there now with Photoshop knowledge, but from my experience with with quite a few new freelancers working in London now knowledge and raw skills do not come hand in hand. I think this line of work still offers great financial rewards for those with natural artistic skills.

[Markzebra]

I never really said I didn't rate them, not all of them anyway. My phrase "basic skills" does not refer to Photoshop skills only. Its the easiest bit to learn that side.

"this line of work still offers great financial rewards for those with natural artistic skills." yes and LUCK, like being offered a job as scanner operator at Metro, at exactly the right time and place. And not being asked to sign a "i will not steal your clients" clause

[mac monkey]

Sorry Mark. I didn't mean you not rating them, that is my opinion. I was referring to your comment about there being more people with photoshop knowledge. And yes you're right luck and timing plays a huge part. Again sorry for any misunderstanding. Where do you work in London if you don't mind me asking, we may have crossed paths at some stage!!

[mac monkey]

My friend started at Metro a few months back (after leaving Spring Studios) he says they are trying to retain some of the lost work and build up the business again.

[OperaFan1981]

I am a photographer/retoucher and I am self-taught at everything! I've been at this for the past 1.8 years (I'll be 2 this mid-summer 2008).

I've read up books on entry level retouching and I know the controls of photoshop inside and out.

The rest is all experimenting.

[OperaFan1981]

I want to intern under you. =)

Originally Posted by cricket1961

I don't think you need to have a 4 year degree to retouch. Or even a 2 year degree. You have good experience as a photographer which is a plus. ANd having an eye for what you are going for is always helpful.

Your best bet is to find a person (company) who is experienced to take you on as a intern. There are plenty out there, and some in Canada also. I can give you the name of someone I respect as a creative and retoucher there if you'd like.

Some people will do this through the internet for you also. I have helped people out from a huge number of countries and those with natural talent have gone on to have great retouching careers. Not because I told them what to do but I was there to answer their questions and point them in a good direction. Everyone has their own style though.

Chris

[Jaysen]

Ronald, I'd like to intern under you.

Originally Posted by OperaFan1981

I want to intern under you. =)

[Jaysen]

Anyone by chance heard of cdiabu.edu? They've opened up a new campus in DC as well. Not sure of their value.

Also, I'd like to find a school in the UK to study at for a while, so if anyone would happen to know of any, I'd love to hear your suggestions, opinions, etc.

[flice]

I've spent my last year in photography school at a guy in London. One of the retouchers we use actually employ freelancers and at some point mentioned that she needed another guy.
I did some freelance at her place when my boss didn't have any work for me. She's quite good and efficient and a super nice person

Check out her site and write an email or something... working IN the business beats any school any day... IMO.
Needless to say I have boosted my Photoshop skills a lot by spending time with her.

Her site:
www.darkroomdigital.co.uk

[skauskas]

Originally Posted by Rhasval

Hi Rockability, I think this is going to make your
day. Here is what you are looking for just to star learning. Of course, as Zgane pointed out it is not just about techniques but how you are able to apply them and how much you have worked with them:
http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=566

It made my day that's for sure!! Thank you for sharing!