Specific Schools for Fashion Retouching

[rockability]

Hi there,

I've used the search feature, the FAQ, and browsed the site and I can't quite find the exact answer to my question(s), so forgive me if I'm starting a repeat topic.

I am a professional photographer who does mainly portraits, but more on the private side (families, kids, etc.) Occasionally I have done some commercial work for clothing companies and the like.

The more I get into photoshop (because you're always learning new things), the more I realize that I really have a passion for retouching portraits. I've decided I would really like to look into getting into that specialized field, but I'm not quite sure where to start education wise.

Obviously there are great books, online tutorials and forums out there. What I'm wanting to know is where would one look into applying to go to school specifically for fashion retouching? Is there such a thing? Most programs I've come across seem to be either full out photography programs with some photoshop added, or more in the field of a general art degree. Because of my solid background in photoshop and photography, am I off base to believe a four year degree may not be necessary and I could move more quickly into specialized training for simply retouching?

Any tips or information on where to start looking for such a program would be much appreciated. I've checked out the websites of a few schools (FIT, RIT, and ACCD among others) and haven't come across such a program yet.

Thank you!

[rockability]

I'll also add that I am in Canada, but willing to relocate for school.

[Insensitive.]

Great topic! I'd like to know too.

[smak]

Maybe you could hire a private tutor who is very experienced in Retouching. Couldn't cost much compared to years of college tuition. That along with certain books (Eismann), tutorials and forums, you could learn a lot.

[nevie]

I go to RIT and they don't have a specific retouching program but they offer retouching classes. I am currently in some and they are great. Its more about being efficient and retouching well then simply regarding one specific topic. I am in the visual media program which is photography with a focus like graphic design or printing so its more rounded. A lot of the non- shooting courses are really nice too. Just thought I would elaborate more on the RIT subject, I don't think the website does it justice. You might want to look at Brooks, they are more specified with there shooting courses but I don't know about retouching.

[zganie]

I think its the type of business where you really have to try and get in somewhere,But the catch is you have to at least show some profiency and some promise

Just my opinion
zganie

[Rhasval]

Hi Rockability, I think this is going to make your day. Here is what you are looking for just to star learning. Of course, as Zgane pointed out it is not just about techniques but how you are able to apply them and how much you have worked with them:
http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=566

[diggnikon]

A Uni in france does the course in digital and you can major in retouching , although i think if your willing to relocate and study - id look at internships with companies like taylor james in london .

hunt down Mike Ruiz in New York and see if you can do an internship with him maybe as his digital work is really progressive

[Markzebra]

Theres just too much competition for Taylor James, they used to offer low waged "trainee" positions, but haven't heard of that for years now. You wont get the time of day, the guy thats the production manager BH gets 100's of people expressing an interest and sadly lost any interest in even being polite.

Make sure you are listening to someone who's work you can SEE and respect and can teach you something - there are a great many so called tutors and books actually teaching at a beginners level, and great deal of very BAD advice out there. Most people learn by doing it.

[rockability]

Originally Posted by smak

Maybe you could hire a private tutor who is very experienced in Retouching. Couldn't cost much compared to years of college tuition. That along with certain books (Eismann), tutorials and forums, you could learn a lot.

This is a great idea and one I've seriously considered, although I would then lose the ability to get any scholarships or student loans. I'm not sure whether those are necessary yet but I hope it stays a viable option!



nevie - Thank you for that information on RIT. Perhaps I'll do some phoning and see what they have to say.


Rhasval - THANK YOU for that link! Looks like a fun thing to start with to actually just at least get going on something while I'm researching.


diggnikon - I hear of Mike Ruiz alot. Thanks for mentioning that avenue.


Markzebra - I completely agree about learning by doing and I know I'm going to have to weed through the advice over the next few years to find out what is really going to help me and what isn't. Thanks for the tidbit on Taylor James, I hadn't heard that until now. Good to know.




If anyone else that has gone on to have a career in retouching wants to comment on the necessity of a four year degree, that would be much appreciated.

[pixelzombie]

i have only seen a handful of job postings that required a 4 year degree, most were only concerned with experience and even then you'd have to pass "their" test to even be considered...

[AltIvan]

This is more what the cliend see; in this bussiness many doesnt care where has you been; just what you can do (what they can see from your portfolio)

[JayNads]

I don't know what your education level is, but SVA is offering a masters program run by Katrin Eismann: http://www.schoolofvisualarts.edu/gr...id0=2&sid1=227

It's designed for working photographers so most of the classes are held in the evening.

Good luck!!!

[cricket1961]

I don't think you need to have a 4 year degree to retouch. Or even a 2 year degree. You have good experience as a photographer which is a plus. ANd having an eye for what you are going for is always helpful.

Your best bet is to find a person (company) who is experienced to take you on as a intern. There are plenty out there, and some in Canada also. I can give you the name of someone I respect as a creative and retoucher there if you'd like.

Some people will do this through the internet for you also. I have helped people out from a huge number of countries and those with natural talent have gone on to have great retouching careers. Not because I told them what to do but I was there to answer their questions and point them in a good direction. Everyone has their own style though.

Chris

[diggnikon]

Hi All

i think chris is on the rite track in getting advice online also form other retouchers .

I know from my own experience working for a portrait studio has been great to cut my teeth on retouching day to day . I have spent day after day working on countless good and bad photography and some good makeup jobs and some really bad orange looking clients that need to be corrected fast .

The biggest part of working full time and making a living from what you do is you have to love it and want to progress in the field .When i started my job i was asked could i handle 8hrs a day working in Photoshop ? well ive done more than 8hrs a day thats for sure but the turnover of images you work on is endless , but from this i have learn't what no one could tell you in a classroom . What works best as you will learn this over time with mistakes and pressure when a job has be turned around in the quickest time you can with another 40 jobs to be delivered in the next 2 weeks .
The next step is to work outside of your day job and to get working on test shoots and working with photographer's , hairdresser's, Makeup artist as they all need portfolio's and this should in tern help you network alot faster and give you more experience in the real world of day to day work and business .

Im sure we would all love to be getting 3-4 jobs a week worth $500 -1000 each but i think this would happen with time and hard work .

Take a look a photoshelter's blog and find a talk chase jarvis did for them when he mentioned spending a week working on his own book shooting 15-18 hrs a day and invested heavily in himself to make his book and client base grow .

Thats my morning Rant from London .

Have a good day everyone .

brett

[grygarness]

Hi all

I think levels of skills and professional standards vary from region to region, and within different parts of the industry, and you have to be very specific about the level of skills you want to achieve. If you compare a 'hight street' portrait photographer who does their own retouching for private clients at an affordable price with a high-end retoucher who retouches for advertising and fashion on massive budgets, you are looking at two completely different worlds. Let me give you an example of the latter. In 2003 a photography student at a London college started doing some 1-1 training with me because she was not happy with the PS training she received at the college. I could see immediately that she had talent, and we did a session every 3 months or so until she graduated in 2005. By then she was very competent at the Pen Tool, brush skills etc. and her general Photoshop skills were pretty solid. She decided to get work as a retoucher and started looking for work at various studios around London: Taylor James, Saddington & Baynes, Happy Finish.... She got a trainee job at Happy Finish in November 2005 and has worked incredibly hard there. 10-12 hour days and often weekends. After 2 years she was considered a fully fledged retoucher (although her work isn't up on the website yet http://www.happyfinish.net/). It's taken her 5 years to get there. By comparison my path was very different. I worked 14 years as a hairdresser and hair & make-up artist. I then worked 10 years as a photographer, and did all my own printing. I was taught PS privately by a 'guru' within the field, and then left to my own devices, reading every book on PS and comparing techniques a lot with experienced retoucher friends from Getty. I started retouching my own work for commissions, and then was asked by design companies to retouch for other photographers. I retouch a lot under supervision, and this is very disciplining, because you have to be efficient and justify every move, when the client is sitting next to you. Sometimes this becomes a hybrid of training and retouching, and I don't mind. I charge the same.

Are there any schools that train retouching? Maybe somewhere... But let me put it differently? Would anyone who spent 4-5 years getting to the top level through apprenticeship (or sheer resourcefulness) want to teach at a college, with the salary they pay? Not me. I train specific courses, but to train at a college for £30 per hour? I don't think any highly skilled professional would do that on a regular basis, every week. So my advice is to find the right level you want to aim at. Befriend people within the industry in your area. Magazines might need some help – they are usually big enough to cater for a work placement. Read all the relevant books – the good ones, the bad ones... and compare. They all have some merit. Set aside at least 3 hours a day to practice. Above all, use good, sharp, hi-res images to work on, and aim to keep it real. --- Gry Garness
Adobe Certified Expert, Photoshop

Author of:
Essential Color Optimization in Photoshop CS3
Essential Color Management
Digital Retouching for Fashion, Beauty and Portrait Photography
http://www.grygarness.com/

[Markzebra]

She accepted Happy's insulting "beginners" rate for 5 years then? thats durability alright.

[grygarness]

No – she was only a trainee there for 2 years but the whole learning process (through college etc.) took almost 5 years. But still a long journey. She's doing very well now though, and being amply rewarded.

[Markzebra]

Yep I heard they promised big things to many people. Unfortunately I've met at least a few that came out very un-happy. As a result theres a bit of a bad name now circulating about that particular collection of retouchers. Fact is most of the happiest happy's there were given a tremendous opportunity early on at places like Metro, when basic skills were still at a premium. They themselves had no problem earning good money while they were learning, and then left taking the clients they were put in touch with through Metro with them. And its all about clients.

There are a lot more people out there now, with the basic skills but that doesn't justify exploitation wages for people with more than 3 or 4 years. Unfortunately when theres a lot of spade work to do (paths,skin) and you match that with a huge quantity of people all looking for an apportunity, then you can see why this kind of thing begins to happen. These aren't the old Union days though

[BadM0j0]

If I had enough interest... I might start some courses... I'm based in Montreal. What do you think... would anybody be interested?

Roger Lafontaine
www.lafontaineillustration.com

[mac monkey]

I have to say I don't rate Happy Finish at all. Their last attempt at retouching the Harvey Nic's campaign was pretty poor. I agree with you Mark, there are a lot more people out there now with Photoshop knowledge, but from my experience with with quite a few new freelancers working in London now knowledge and raw skills do not come hand in hand. I think this line of work still offers great financial rewards for those with natural artistic skills.

[Markzebra]

I never really said I didn't rate them, not all of them anyway. My phrase "basic skills" does not refer to Photoshop skills only. Its the easiest bit to learn that side.

"this line of work still offers great financial rewards for those with natural artistic skills." yes and LUCK, like being offered a job as scanner operator at Metro, at exactly the right time and place. And not being asked to sign a "i will not steal your clients" clause

[mac monkey]

Sorry Mark. I didn't mean you not rating them, that is my opinion. I was referring to your comment about there being more people with photoshop knowledge. And yes you're right luck and timing plays a huge part. Again sorry for any misunderstanding. Where do you work in London if you don't mind me asking, we may have crossed paths at some stage!!

[mac monkey]

My friend started at Metro a few months back (after leaving Spring Studios) he says they are trying to retain some of the lost work and build up the business again.

[OperaFan1981]

I am a photographer/retoucher and I am self-taught at everything! I've been at this for the past 1.8 years (I'll be 2 this mid-summer 2008).

I've read up books on entry level retouching and I know the controls of photoshop inside and out.

The rest is all experimenting.

[OperaFan1981]

I want to intern under you. =)

Originally Posted by cricket1961

I don't think you need to have a 4 year degree to retouch. Or even a 2 year degree. You have good experience as a photographer which is a plus. ANd having an eye for what you are going for is always helpful.

Your best bet is to find a person (company) who is experienced to take you on as a intern. There are plenty out there, and some in Canada also. I can give you the name of someone I respect as a creative and retoucher there if you'd like.

Some people will do this through the internet for you also. I have helped people out from a huge number of countries and those with natural talent have gone on to have great retouching careers. Not because I told them what to do but I was there to answer their questions and point them in a good direction. Everyone has their own style though.

Chris

[Jaysen]

Ronald, I'd like to intern under you.

Originally Posted by OperaFan1981

I want to intern under you. =)

[Jaysen]

Anyone by chance heard of cdiabu.edu? They've opened up a new campus in DC as well. Not sure of their value.

Also, I'd like to find a school in the UK to study at for a while, so if anyone would happen to know of any, I'd love to hear your suggestions, opinions, etc.

[flice]

I've spent my last year in photography school at a guy in London. One of the retouchers we use actually employ freelancers and at some point mentioned that she needed another guy.
I did some freelance at her place when my boss didn't have any work for me. She's quite good and efficient and a super nice person

Check out her site and write an email or something... working IN the business beats any school any day... IMO.
Needless to say I have boosted my PS skills a lot by spending time with her.

Her site:
www.darkroomdigital.co.uk

[skauskas]

Originally Posted by Rhasval

Hi Rockability, I think this is going to make your
day. Here is what you are looking for just to star learning. Of course, as Zgane pointed out it is not just about techniques but how you are able to apply them and how much you have worked with them:
http://movielibrary.lynda.com/html/modPage.asp?ID=566

It made my day that's for sure!! Thank you for sharing!