Hair - masking/flyaways etc

[Markzebra]

A technical point, max and min on a mask do exactly the same and reference the same math, as the expand and contract selection commands. All the other commands in the select menu have their filter equivalents too. This is useful to know not for high end work, but mainly for visualisation where use of Quick mask and applying keyboard shortcuts to these filters can make speedy and crude type of selections and masking much easier.

[Daviskw]

There are some people using masking plug-ins on Dpreview and they do excellent quick work. They are very capable in standard masking but think the plug-ins allow them to do better and faster extracting.

As for min and max filters the limiting factor is the minimum radius of 1 pixel... so only rough adjustments can be made.

Butch

[Ant]

Originally Posted by Daviskw

There are some people using masking plug-ins on Dpreview and they do excellent quick work. They are very capable in standard masking but think the plug-ins allow them to do better and faster extracting.

Butch

DPreview, a bastion of mediocrity and hardcore amateurs.. Prosumer files displayed as jpgs with no commercial basis.

[Markzebra]

Theres not a masking plug in that can do a better job than the tools already in there

[KR1156]

Exactlyyyyyyyyyyy

[Daviskw]

Originally Posted by Ant

DPreview, a bastion of mediocrity and hardcore amateurs.. Prosumer files displayed as jpgs with no commercial basis.

As in this forum there is a broad spectrum of abilities on dpreview. I am not saying it is a better forum only that some very talented people are using the plug-ins mentioned. There is no reason plug-ins can't be used to make professional extractions. There is nothing that says you can't combine both plug-ins and standard tools supplied.

I find very talented people on both forums and I see no evidence that retouchpro is any better or worse...I certainly would not say all the work presented on dpview is less professional then work presented here.

Butch

[Ant]

Originally Posted by Daviskw

As in this forum there is a broad spectrum of abilities on dpreview. I am not saying it is a better forum only that some very talented people are using the plug-ins mentioned. There is no reason plug-ins can't be used to make professional extractions. There is nothing that says you can't combine both plug-ins and standard tools supplied.

I find very talented people on both forums and I see no evidence that retouchpro is any better or worse...I certainly would not say all the work presented on dpview is less professional then work presented here.

Butch

Certainly this place is 99.9% wanna be. Not trying to make a comparison between here and there. Only saying that on dp, their market and demographic is almost exclusively upper tech nerd - accountant, not pro.

Better than saying someone gets good results with plug-ins and suggesting the use of them both, is trying them yourself and realizing they are a waste of time.

[Daviskw]

Ant... so you have tried them and found them to be a waste of time? Perhaps they would not be a waste of time for us 99.9%...or they may be beyond your skills or patience to use properly.

Most of the very tools and procedures you suggested to make an extraction were at one time not part of Photoshop and developed as add-ons and plug-ins.

I'll bet that some procedures and innovations in these plug-ins will find there way in future additions of Photoshop. This is how the program develops.

Just because a procedure works in the present or past does not mean it can't be made better and faster another way in the future.

If we stifle experimentation then we loose innovation…I don’t think you would want to make a living using Photoshop 2.5. Having an open mind to new ways can only make your work even better.

Butch

[Markzebra]

There are absolutely no "procedures and innovations" in these plug-ins. When you get round to understanding whats going on under the bonnet in photoshop you realise all they really do is use the existing capabilities, and give it a crap interface. This interface often takes longer to use than the built in stuff. Even learning something basic like Color Range PROPERLY, along with simple masking techniques, will wipe out 50% of them

[kyo]

Why is there so much hate here? Relax.

Assuming your way is the only and best way, is silly. Assuming that if someone does it any other way, they are automatically a "wanna be" is both ridiculous and insulting.

If you don't want to use a plug-in, by all means stick with your methods because they work for you. If somebody wants to take an alternate method that they get satisfactory results with, why shouldn't they?

Photoshop is an extremely powerful tool, but it is not the be all end all of tools, it's a strong base. Do you still use photoshop to enlarge an image? Do you use only photoshop to reduce noise in an image? It could be argued that doing either of these exclusively within photoshop is actually the 'wrong way' these days as there is software (*gasp* plug-ins) that do it far more effectively.. both faster and better in some cases.

Anyway, relax people, we do this because we enjoy it right? Even those of us who do it for a living, I hope are still in it because it's something we enjoy. You shouldn't argue about something like that

Kyle

[rovis]

I have a few hair brushes that I use for masking quite a lot.

I have tried the plug-ins, but didn't find any speed advantage in professional work.
But I understand that for blue screen and green screen work the plug-ins like zmatte work quite well.

[snook305]

I have been searching for a long time and there is really no Best way..
Depends on what you like to do.
In anycase I sat next to a really really good photoshopper in my country and he does not even worry about the fly aways as he makes hair after the fact and blends it into the natural hair using the Smudge tool!
Not sure quite how he does it but it comes out really good.
He kind of purposely cuts a lot of the hair off and then remakes it himself with the smudge tool
Hope that may help some..
Snook

[bartjoosen]

Originally Posted by snook305

I have been searching for a long time and there is really no Best way..
Depends on what you like to do.
In anycase I sat next to a really really good photoshopper in my country and he does not even worry about the fly aways as he makes hair after the fact and blends it into the natural hair using the Smudge tool!
Not sure quite how he does it but it comes out really good.
He kind of purposely cuts a lot of the hair off and then remakes it himself with the smudge tool
Hope that may help some..
Snook

One way of using the smudge tool and hair:
http://www.innographx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=910


Bart

[cricket1961]

I have a single brush that I use that I redraw or create from scratch any hair that I need to work on. A separate brush for eyelashes.

Chris

[Daviskw]

Hi Chris

Are these custom brushes that you have made or downloaded?

Butch