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Not that Pascal needs any more attention

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  #11  
Old 05-08-2008, 06:34 PM
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DJSoulglo DJSoulglo is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

People are now taking quotes from the article. Today on ad-age: a big huff over the fact that he said the Dove images were heavily retouched.

Funny.

http://adage.com/article?article_id=126914
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2008, 07:35 PM
krisdaloo krisdaloo is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSoulglo View Post
People are now taking quotes from the article. Today on ad-age: a big huff over the fact that he said the Dove images were heavily retouched.

Funny.

http://adage.com/article?article_id=126914
That's a big deal.

If I hired someone to do a job, and the entire campaign was intended to be "real beauty", I wouldn't be happy about that person telling the world how fake it actually is.

I don't know the details of the legality... but I'm hesitant to show any before-and-afters. Besides, there are very few people in the world who should be able to speak the words "good retouching"... the majority of people shouldn't know it's happened at all.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:53 PM
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cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

The Dove campaign that he mentions is kind of lopsided anyway. It shows a lot of larger women but no one else. If you took a random sample of women walking down the street you can bet there would be a good deal women ranging from slim to heavy looking. Dove is showing the extreme on the other end. Equally as bad to me.
Their viral video showing such a extreme retouch is,I suppose, possible. I have never in my 25 year career as a retoucher seen anything done like this. Except to show what MIGHT be done. And usually as a joke.

Ant I'm not discounting him. I just wish that people looked past some of that fluff a little more or that he gives a little more credence to how retouching is wrongly perceived.

Chris
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  #14  
Old 05-10-2008, 04:50 AM
zganie zganie is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

Most People like this guy are great at PR.
Which is whats missing from most peoples arsenal of talents
I know your going to say you need talent,But there are many talented people just as talented and maybe more so than this guy but you do not see anybody writing articles on them
WHY because this guy knows how to schmooz and do the smoke and mirror show thats why
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  #15  
Old 05-10-2008, 11:27 AM
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cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

You're right zganie. There is definitely a need to learn how to promote oneself. I have had plenty of interviews and magazine articles written about me, but I still am terrible at self promotion fluff. It isn't in my nature and I doubt that even a business degree will help me out with it.

And there are plenty of good, not great, retouchers/artists out there with way more business than I have because of it. Come to think of it, plenty of great ones also. But that is a fault of mine not theirs.


Chris
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  #16  
Old 05-10-2008, 03:30 PM
Dutch Rich Dutch Rich is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

So here's the backlash of that article in the Daily News of today.
http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx
Pay special attention to the first sentence.
As we're here stroking ourselves about how we might be better than Pascal, we are truly ignoring the message. Yesterday Snook said that we were well paid and shouldn't dare demand credit for what we do. Today the Daily News is saying that retouching is almost unethical and that we should stay in the locked-up basement. For those of you who consider yourselves artist I suggest rallying behind the man and coming to the defense of our profession. People who've just discovered the clone-brush do not apply. Annie claims that she strictly uses him as a printer, which I've heard from fashion photographers all the time. It's their way of saying we're dispensable.
Really want to know what you guys think.

R
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  #17  
Old 05-10-2008, 03:46 PM
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cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

Uh.. Rich. I not for a moment stoked myself about being better than Pascal. I have never seen his personal retouching work that I know of. I have reworked a lot from his shop and it may or may not have been his. I do know that he hovers a lot and the retouchers there have strict guidelines as to how to retouch images.

As to coming to his defense, I believe that I said that I just wish he would do something a little more to dispense with some of the real worlds misconceptions of retouching. If he was a little less mystical about what goes on with retouching in his interviews it probably could have helped stop the backlash that is happening. Not just in this article you pointed out but in others.

Annie by no means uses only him for her retouching, as do very few of his other clients.

Odd though that going back through some of his interviews over the years that Patrick and Annie seem to be mentioned the most, or are giving him credit for stuff.

What do you propose we do to help him out with defense? Or rather, defense of retouching. If you have read any of my blog posts you will have seen that I actually do a lot to alleviate what is being misinterpreted with retouching and perception of the media.

Still would love to know what you propose though.

BTW, I could not find the story from the link you supplied. Anything more direct?

Chris

Last edited by cricket1961; 05-10-2008 at 03:53 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-10-2008, 04:21 PM
Dutch Rich Dutch Rich is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

Even though you might not be stoked, the general emotion his name invokes here in NY is one of envy. Many great photogs I've worked mentioned wishing his downfall to me. I've not only reworked box's stuff but directly competed with him on many luxury campaigns. For more realistic results they came to me and the sleek stuff went to them. In essence the high-end retouching industry is not very large.

I completely understand his reason for being mystical. When I used to work on a Scitex my clients never told me which tool to use to accomplish a certain result. But with everyone owning a Mac and Photoshop it will only be a matter of time before everyone claims to be a master retoucher. Go ask the grand chef for his recipe and see how he will react.

Annie and Patrick mentioning his name only means that they're confident and have a certain old school loyalty.

Now I've started a newsletter to reflect my opinion, some history and these type of conversations to educate my direct network. My neighbor who's a photog mentioned having an actual forum in her studio. Get some retouchers, photographers and maybe someone from the artist guild to mediate. And I did notice your positive contribution, and appreciate it.

You mentioned that your PR skillz are deficient, and so are mine. Obviously we're all a bunch of a-social fruitcakes for choosing to spend 8 to 16 hours a day surrounded by humming CPU's. I just came from a framing shop that's mounting my portfolio on mattboard, and the guy says have you ever thought about doing a show with the before afters. I said sure but it would be too delicate. So he brings up the daily news article and we spent half an hour talking about why we are kept under the radar. Then he says, why don't you get a PR person. You see were I'm heading with this.
We don't have agents, and since we don't work for large boutiques anymore we don't have sales people to buffer and protect our interests.

Yet here we are donating tips of the trade that took years to develop to not retouchers but photographers who don't want to give up any credit but would love to know how to do beautiful skin so they don't need you or me or Ant and Benny anymore. Great!!
I am starting to sound bitter, but I'd rather teach a talented art student my tricks so I can groom him and give him a job.

R
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2008, 04:22 PM
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

Found it on the home site Rich.

Its funny that the rebuttal article actually applies his comment to the wrong campaign by Dove.

Quote: :I mentioned the Dove ad campaign that proudly featured lumpier-than-usual “real women” in their undergarments. It turned out that it was a Dangin job. “Do you know how much retouching was on that?” he asked. “But it was great to do, a challenge, to keep everyone’s skin and faces showing the mileage but not looking unattractive.”

His remark was about the larger people ad, not the aging ad.

I wonder how many people would agree with Annie's comment that Pascal is primarily a printer.

Quote: ""Let's be perfectly clear," Leibovitz said in the statement. "Pascal does all kinds of work, but he is primarily a printer, and only does retouching when asked."

So my question now is, is he really doing that much retouching anymore? Or is the work of Box studio only being automatically attributed to Pascal. I have certainly seen this scenario before so it is possible.

Has he stepped out of doing so much retouching and only handles the occasional large campaign that gets some sort of limelight.

Chris
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  #20  
Old 05-10-2008, 04:44 PM
Dutch Rich Dutch Rich is offline
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Re: Not that Pascal needs any more attention

I think that he is somewhat a producer of images. Directing his staff towards the results he seeks for client and self satisfaction.

He is very known for his color treatment so there's some truth to Annie's statement of him being a printer. Excellent photographers can make those claims. Most others can't. Sometimes, in my case, I am the insurance for when a shoot goes miserably wrong.

I just want to know how he feels about being so called reprimanded in the press.
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