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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Do u consider your retouched photos "PHOTOGRAPHY"?

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  #11  
Old 06-20-2008, 04:52 AM
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The Baron The Baron is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

As JD Spears says, retouching has been an integral part of photopgraphy since Fox Talbot. The darkroom now is Photoshop.
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2008, 08:26 AM
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ashphotoart ashphotoart is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

I'm agree with JD spears, perfect logic he have.

Ash
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2008, 01:44 AM
abdul10000 abdul10000 is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashphotoart View Post
I'm agree with JD spears, perfect logic he have.

Ash
Actually, there is one small flaw in JD's argument.

Back then no body knew what was going on in the darkroom except few insiders and top photographers. In fact most armature photographers didn't know about retouching or didn't know how its done. Furthermore, the extent to which retouching changed originals was a highly guarded secrete by most retouches. Retouchers didn't show off their before & after work like they do today.

When first introduced, people were so amazed with photography. People perceived the results as "objective" or "realistic". And to a great extent modern retouching was devised to capitalize on that perception. When you present a heavily manipulated picture as "real" or "straight from the camera" as most people would think, that's just wrong, even if it was "done like that in the past".



With reference to Ansel Adams, I agree that had he used Photoshop he would have adored it; sparing him the smell of chemical fumes alone is a reason enough to love Photoshop.

That being said, there is a difference between what Ansel did and what contemporary commercial retouching does. The difference lays in the outcome not the tools. For example, Ansel focused on bringing out the most detail and best tonalities he could from any picture. Occasionally, he removed distraction like distant light poles, etc. On the other hand, compare that work to that of a contemporary retoucher that slims down a model, reduces the size of her nose, increase the size of her breast, and changes the color of her eyes and skin. Can you see the difference? One enhance the actual details one replace them.

Posting a new sky from a different picture is in a different league to reblending the red channel in luminosity mode to bring out more "existing" detail in the sky. Both are changes using blending modes, but one attempts to enhance what is present, the second attempts to replace.

Last point, most retouching starts with setting contrast (black and white points) and correcting color for neutrality, etc. Considering those aspects as "manipulative" or "wrong" is, in essence, considering the camera either superior to humans or also wrong. Cameras, after all, apply such changes to every picture they capture (except raw format). Most of the time cameras produce decent results, but in many instance they don't. Armed with the right numbers people can always make those changes better.

Some editing is a must, some is optional, and some is just out in the wild.

Sorry for making this long!

Last edited by abdul10000; 06-21-2008 at 01:57 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2008, 10:51 AM
David Stevenson David Stevenson is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

Try to sell a photograph that has not been retouched or made better in Photoshop
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2008, 11:00 AM
MatthewMarshall MatthewMarshall is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

photography is art, so art can be photograph. So if a retouched photo is called art, and a photo is art, then a retouched photo can be called photography. Wow im in a deep mood today
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2008, 12:02 PM
abdul10000 abdul10000 is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

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Originally Posted by MatthewMarshall View Post
photography is art, so art can be photograph. So if a retouched photo is called art, and a photo is art, then a retouched photo can be called photography. Wow im in a deep mood today
Don't you think it's a bit too general to reference photography as art? Since there is an equally science-based element to it.

I would think composition and lighting for example are artistic elements. On the other hand, all color and light processing done by the camera to produce the picture is science based.
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  #17  
Old 06-21-2008, 01:12 PM
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lurch lurch is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

Quote:
On the other hand, all color and light processing done by the camera to produce the picture is science based.
Actually, it's more engineering-based. And the production of pigments and media for drawing and painting is definitely science-based. Doesn't matter what the origins, a tool is a tool is a tool. Some use the tools to produce art and some use them to produce schlock.
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2008, 01:39 PM
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cardmnal cardmnal is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

When it is in my camera it is a photograph.

On my computer screen it is an image.

Printed, it becomes a picture.

If I like it, it is art.

This argument is for the sake of those "purists" who resist change. Who discount that which they choose not to pursue. To those I ask, is a hydroponic tomato still a tomato? (it certainly tastes like one.)

Last edited by cardmnal; 06-21-2008 at 01:47 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-21-2008, 02:17 PM
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lurch lurch is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardmnal View Post
When it is in my camera it is a photograph.

On my computer screen it is an image.

Printed, it becomes a picture.

If I like it, it is art.

This argument is for the sake of those "purists" who resist change. Who discount that which they choose not to pursue. To those I ask, is a hydroponic tomato still a tomato? (it certainly tastes like one.)
Now I LIKE that breakdown of terminology!
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  #20  
Old 06-21-2008, 07:57 PM
smak smak is offline
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Re: Do u consider your retouchd photos "PHOTOGRAPH

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardmnal View Post
When it is in my camera it is a photograph.

On my computer screen it is an image.

Printed, it becomes a picture.

If I like it, it is art.
I like that also.
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