D&B Video Tutorial

[Cryspatus]

I see quite a few people asking about d&b on here. I tried it yesterday and it worked great. So I posted a video tutorial on what I did to get it to work. Hopefully this helps anyone who is having trouble with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjXmlFdPd7k

[HuBBa]

Excellent tutorial. Not the best videoquality but still the info is there and shows that particular way to do the technique quite well.

[Hendrik]

Is there a difference in quality/results using this method, using the dodge/burn tools at midtones and low exposure on a gray layer compared to the two layer (+ one or two helper layers for contrast/desat) method on a black layer mask?

With the curves adjustment layer method, you can change the curves after you have done the D&B, although I never needed to do that.

So, my question is, ... is this better, is the curves method better or ... results are the same?

[HuBBa]

The thing with curves adjustment layers is that it will be a curve adjustment and not a "linear" one. This means it can do some serious color shifting if you are unlucky and thats why you need to adjust color & saturation on separate layers.

The closest method to this that ive found is using a soft light layer with a 50% neutral fill and dodge & burn directly onto that. That will also introduce minimal color shifts just like this method.

Please note however that these methods only deal with luminance. If it's a direct tonal shift due to it being say a blemish or a zit, you need to adjust the color tone to the surrounding skin tone aswell.

Regardless of how you do it, all of these are based on the same fundamental principles:

A bump/wrinkle/spot/etc, consists of mainly luminance differences to the surrounding skin. By lightening the shadows and darkening the highlights you even out the spots luminance towards the surrounding skin luminance.

So keep that in mind and pick the method that suits your workflow the best. The quality in the end is all up to you as none of these methods will introduce any bluring or artifacts that you do not put there.

[Vejitatoja]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Is there a difference in quality/results using this method, using the dodge/burn tools at midtones and low exposure on a gray layer compared to the two layer (+ one or two helper layers for contrast/desat) method on a black layer mask?

With the curves adjustment layer method, you can change the curves after you have done the D&B, although I never needed to do that.

So, my question is, ... is this better, is the curves method better or ... results are the same?

In my experience there is not much of a difference or no difference at all. So it seems to me that softlight on one layer is better because you don't have to switch layers all the time. You only need to change colours with keystroke "x" on your keyboard or with a button on your stylus, it's much faster and more convenient.

[Vejitatoja]

ok i've watched the tutorial. It's not the best metod shown here. Using dodge and burn tools right on your photograph is destructive. The second thing is 50% gray fill is completly unnecessary in your method, it gives the same efect as setting the layer in 50% opacity.
You use 50% gray fill on a new layer, set in soft light mode. Then you simply brush using white to dodge or black to burn on this layer. If you use low flow setting on your brush it will work very similar the d&b tools but in non destructive fashion.

[HuBBa]

Yeah. after viewing the video a few times more I agree with vejitatoja that allthough the method works, it's a bit overly complicated when all you really need is a soft light layer filled with 50% neutral gray and then dodge and burn to your hearts content.

Still kudos to the OP for taking the time to do a video tutorial

[Cryspatus]

The method I used has the same amount of steps and the same outcome. They both sound the same to me. How is one better than the other?

[julianmarsalis]

Just simply 2 different ways to accomplish the same exact thing in photoshop that's the true power many ways to get the same outcome just pick the one you feel the most comfortable with pretty much that gives you the results you desire. It's that simple whats best for me maybe not be best for someone else and vice versa like the 50% grey layer argument all the time to me I use it allows me to simply see every change I make easily no matter if white or black. Also opens up other options as well it becomes apparent after you just realize its nothing more than degrees of change in colors from white to black and how they effect your image based on the blend mode of course.

[Vejitatoja]

Originally Posted by Cryspatus

The method I used has the same amount of steps and the same outcome. They both sound the same to me. How is one better than the other?

The main difference is when you want to change something you did earlier and when undo is not an option anymore. With softlight method you just choose white or black and paint over what you did previously, and it's a nondestructive change, you can dodge and burn the same spot many times.

[diggnikon]

Nice to see someone do something positive and ad a tut !

it would be great if people got together in their city's to do some strobist type catch ups and nut out some good work flows and tips & tricks .

[SteveB2005]

Yes, I have to agree, using PS D&B tools by themselves is destructive and if mistakes are made, it would be tough even using History to make repairs. Using the soft layer D&B blending modes is much safer and you can experiment and not worry about destroying all the work

steve

[Cassidy]

your video is different but just goes to show more than one way to skin a cat, congrats

[HuBBa]

and in the spirit of sharing knowledge, here is one i whipped up with the soft-light approach instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-uVEi8vhC8

Enjoy

[Hendrik]

I made a new layer, filled it with 50% gray and set blending mode on soft light. Use soft brush and white and black to darken en lighten the spots.

Opacity and flow are the same and set between 5-15%.

This is correct?

You still need two helper layers: a desaturation layer to make it B&W and a contrast curve.

As I read from the above is that the ONLY difference compared to the two-curves-adjustment-layer method (and painting on a black mask) is: easier switch between darken/lighten with x and you lose one layer. Correct? Quality is the same, only the route to Rome.

[Vejitatoja]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

I made a new layer, filled it with 50% gray and set blending mode on soft light. Use soft brush and white and black to darken en lighten the spots.

Opacity and flow are the same and set between 5-15%.

This is correct?

Yes, that's correct. I use flow betwen 3-5 % to have more control.

When color shifts happen (and they happen in every DnB method) just use new empty layer above the dnbsoftlight layer and set it's blending mode to color. Paint on this layer(low opacity 10-20%) using skin color sampled from good skin region until the color is ok.

[quadupix]

Thanks for sharing! Your videos are helpful

[Markzebra]

Cryspatus your method in that tutorial is incorrect, and you have obviously misunderstood the technique. Filling a mask with 50% grey is completely pointless, and you are basically using the old dodge and burn TOOLS on flat pixels

Its really not a good idea to post this stuff on YouTube either

[Cryspatus]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

Cryspatus your method in that tutorial is incorrect, and you have obviously misunderstood the technique. Filling a mask with 50% grey is completely pointless, and you are basically using the old dodge and burn TOOLS on flat pixels

Its really not a good idea to post this stuff on YouTube either

I wouldn't say I misunderstood it, because that is the way I heard it was supposed to be done. At least before this thread started. I'll probably make a new video though with the technique that was talked about here. But the method I showed in the video isn't a complete waste because it has worked great for me.

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by Cryspatus

I wouldn't say I misunderstood it, because that is the way I heard it was supposed to be done. At least before this thread started. I'll probably make a new video though with the technique that was talked about here. But the method I showed in the video isn't a complete waste because it has worked great for me.

... and besides that, YOU took the time to make a video, some so called masters on this board are not willing to show their techniques, ... nor their portfolios.

So thank you for taking the time for showing the techniques.

[HuBBa]

And there is one showing the other technique (soft-light layer + burn & dodge) already in this thread.

Unless thats wrong aswell?

[smak]

There are about 3 different ways to set up your dodge and burn layers:

Use curves-
use a blank layer - Soft light mode
use a blank layer filled with 50% grey. Soft light mode

Use separate layers if you like. Use multiple layers if you need to.

There are even PS actions out there that will set up the layers for you.

Then paint on these layers with a very low opacity brush/flow brush.

There's nothing more to it than that.

This shouldn't cause mass confusion.

**The real skill is the painting. It is very time-consuming and can take real painting skills to even out the skin.

I admit I have neither the patience or the skill to do this very well. That's why I don't work on portraits.

[toan thai]

I have tried these techniques in the past few months and I have to say I like curve layers the best--very little discoloration issue. Soft light layer on the other hand made the dodged areas look chalky and I had to paint back the skin color. smak, you are right about time consuming. It takes so long!

[Hendrik]

Thank you smak. No it isn't confusing.

I always use the curves method. At this moment, I'm testing the use a blank layer filled with 50% grey, Soft light mode method described in this thread. I notice using the x speed is a bit better compared to the curves method ... but ...

With the curves method, I can errase my mistakes easily by painting with black on the mask. How is this done with the 50% gray-technique? Painting with 50% grey 'color' doesn't work completely?

[smak]

Sorry if I was harsh. It just seemed the layer set up had been discussed for so long.
Again, the real technique here is the painting, as any pro retoucher will say.

The layers don't do anything but sit there.

[julianmarsalis]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Thank you smak. No it isn't confusing.

I always use the curves method. At this moment, I'm testing the use a blank layer filled with 50% grey, Soft light mode method described in this thread. I notice using the x speed is a bit better compared to the curves method ... but ...

With the curves method, I can errase my mistakes easily by painting with black on the mask. How is this done with the 50% gray-technique? Painting with 50% grey 'color' doesn't work completely?

Painting with 50% gray at 100% opacity and Hardness should ....

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by julianmarsalis

Painting with 50% gray at 100% opacity and Hardness should ....

Hmm, not it doesn't work for me ... or is L*=50 not 50% gray? (Lab space)

see the attachement.

-I filled a page with L*ab 50, 0 0
-made a new layer and filled with 50% gray/soft-light and set the layer also on soft-light
- painted with a brush (white/black) and tried to remove it again with 100% flow and opacity/L*=50. Left softbrush, right 100% hardness.

[SteveB2005]

I think that personally, I learn new techniques faster seeing how the procedure is done in real time in a video. What I don't care for are youtube tutorials where the presenter has to put distracting music and runs through the lesson without talking about what they are doing. In classes, instructors are not usually playing music when they are teaching, at least in my experience. Thanks for any tutorials though

[julianmarsalis]

Originally Posted by Hendrik

Hmm, not it doesn't work for me ... or is L*=50 not 50% gray? (Lab space)

see the attachement.

-I filled a page with L*ab 50, 0 0
-made a new layer and filled with 50% gray/soft-light and set the layer also on soft-light
- painted with a brush (white/black) and tried to remove it again with 100% flow and opacity/L*=50. Left softbrush, right 100% hardness.

Nope 54 is on my system see the attached jpg of my dialog box. I tried it in lab and rgb modes worked great for me..... can always just convert the layer normal and sample a clean unedited area and check the value.

HSB 0 0 50
rgb 128 128 128

[Hendrik]

Originally Posted by julianmarsalis

Nope 54 is on my system see the attached jpg of my dialog box. I tried it in lab and rgb modes worked great for me..... can always just convert the layer normal and sample a clean unedited area and check the value.

HSB 0 0 50
rgb 128 128 128

Thanks, yes it works. RGB 128,128,128 is the value.