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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

D&B doesn't work ?

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  #11  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:21 AM
Hendrik Hendrik is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

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Originally Posted by namphoto View Post
@Hendrik

better put, I just didn't like the previous generalization made before mine. all is well.
Ah, ok I see it now and understand.
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2008, 03:46 AM
hubas hubas is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

In general i think that most skin problems can fixed with the heal and clone tool. Softening an images is almost always a bad move as you loose a lot of texture than can still be retained with heal and clone tool. Might work if the skin is already rather good.

Doodge and burn is a very good method but in my opinion to time consuming if the skin is not already very close to perfect or some one is willing to pay you by the hour for doing it
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:55 PM
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Verywierd Verywierd is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

Assuming a good sharp high resolution portrait, I really don't understand how D&B alone can clean up the skin if there is significant scarring, pimples etc. Even when you have removed the tonal differences, the "repaired" spots will not have the same geometric pattern as the rest of the skin, let alone the tiny hairs, shadows of the hairs, subdermal blood vessel tone, pore pattern etc. If in the end you still need to resort to the clone and heal tools, then why do people go on an on about how D&B is the only "real" way to retouch?
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2008, 03:48 PM
madclark madclark is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

Well I'm a total D&B convert now, previously advocating heal and cloning techniques to clean up skin. It IS very time consuming. I'll be the first to admit that, no matter how skilled at it you are. However, I've never had the control I can achieve with the D&B technique that I can with heal and clone. You can create literally flawless skin without faking anything in the original image.

I've included a close up of a recent project to show what you can achieve. Only thing to note is I added a surface blur layer over the D&B at a low opacity to soften the effect some.

There is no other technique that can so accurately fix skin like D&B though.
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:50 PM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

"It IS very time consuming. I'll be the first to admit that, no matter how skilled at it you are" - thats not really true if you a REALLY good it can be done to some standard quite quickly - but this depends on how its done and what method you use. I've seen people who have gotten so good at this - what I think is the faster people tend to use pressure sensitivity with Wacom - you can learn with practice to do a lot of intricate subtle work quite quickly. By quickly I mean hours rather than days.

And its not always the way to do it, depends on the type of image - sometimes cloning will do it if the shot is bad enough. Blurring really NEVER works because it not only destroys texture but also smooths tonal transitions, by this I mean where highlights and shadows fall, in response to light hitting the surface.
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:44 PM
HughSteenk HughSteenk is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

Markzebra is one of the few people here, most definitely in this thread, that has a clue. Everyone else listen to him and disregard your lack of experience and knowledge.

Stop talking about what you don't understand. It's amazing to me the amount of crap you people spew to each other and how it feeds all the misinformation. you are all part of the problem.
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  #17  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:44 PM
madclark madclark is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

Well I'm sure there are some long-time tablet users that take little time at all, but in a detailed high-res headshot the different amount of time and quality between some blurred and texturized mask layers, which take minutes, as opposed to D&B that might take hours is noticeable.

Or maybe I'm just a control freak. :-)
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2008, 06:04 AM
Hendrik Hendrik is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

A lot of people are talking about the best or correct technique, but is seems they forget the most important question … what is the intended usage of the image.

It’s cool if you get perfect skin, but for a B&W advertisement in a newspaper, you don’t need the skin texture you want for a high-resolution print in a glossy magazine. In my opinion, a good retoucher knows what the image needs and what time he can invest before he even touches the image.

As I said before, blurring and destroying the skin is not a bad technique. Maybe it is for a high-fashion glossy magazine (although I have seen many pictures who got this treatment), but not always for other purposes. Burning people to the ground because they have retouched an image not following the golden rules is a bit snobbish. Giving suggestions and guidance seems to me a better way to point people in an alternative direction.

D&B the skin is not a holy rule, although some evangelists maybe try to convince you otherwise. It’s very time-consuming and not suitable for all retouchers. You need to know what your clients wants.

The healing brush is something miraculous. In my opinion, it’s plain stupid if you don’t use such a great tool. Many skin blemishes can be removed using this tool. The rest can be done with the D&B method or the clone tool. Sometimes, I still use the blur technique or the degrunge technique.
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2008, 08:22 AM
madclark madclark is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
A lot of people are talking about the best or correct technique, but is seems they forget the most important question … what is the intended usage of the image.
...
The healing brush is something miraculous. In my opinion, it’s plain stupid if you don’t use such a great tool. Many skin blemishes can be removed using this tool.
I completely agree that there are appropriate uses for both techniques and I regularly have a layer for both type of fixes. But I do recognize that because of the work I do, D&B makes the greatest effect. D&B makes it so easy to control the overall skin tone and goes beyond simple blemish fixes.
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  #20  
Old 08-18-2008, 01:20 PM
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pixelhunter pixelhunter is offline
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Re: D&B doesn't work ?

This actually looks like cloning and/or healing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madclark View Post
Well I'm a total D&B convert now, previously advocating heal and cloning techniques to clean up skin. It IS very time consuming. I'll be the first to admit that, no matter how skilled at it you are. However, I've never had the control I can achieve with the D&B technique that I can with heal and clone. You can create literally flawless skin without faking anything in the original image.

I've included a close up of a recent project to show what you can achieve. Only thing to note is I added a surface blur layer over the D&B at a low opacity to soften the effect some.

There is no other technique that can so accurately fix skin like D&B though.
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