D&B Actual techniques which professional uses.

[ashkumar]

After reading some of thread I'm unable to get the results with D&B. Professional companied wants only D&B to smooth the skin alonth with evenout tones.

I gone through lots of thread I found only that they says use only "Dodge and Burn" Put one layer for Dodge and Second for Burn and even out skin etc.etc.

It it much helpful for all intermediate retoucher if profressionals and expericenced retouchers put turorials with actually probmletic image and show how nicely this work can be done.

Ashkumar

[Insensitive.]

I agree, it seems like when people do D&B tuts its on people with damn near already flawless skin. I wish i can help, but im a degrunge freak myself.

[Hendrik]

Godmother has a video with D&B (and also some degrunge):

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...y-retouch.html

[grannysdc]

D&B technique: http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=272#

[Cuervo79]

The problem with the D&B is that most people don't grasp the time you actually have to invest on making it properly, I tried with one of the portraits I took and after a while I also knew that after the first pass of D&B I had to do another to clear patches of skin that where discovered after flattening the skin. Its a big job and I found out I don't have the patience to do it. So as another poster said I'm a degrunge freak

[ashkumar]

I agree that it takes time. but how nicely this change the skin I want to learn.

Ashkumar

[HuBBa]

There is a reason you only use D&B on jobs that you either get paid for or that you deem it necessary to spend x ammount of hours doing it.

And its when the hours rack up that you do remember the old rule that a good makeup-artist is always cheaper than doing it in Photoshop

[Cuervo79]

Originally Posted by HuBBa

And its when the hours rack up that you do remember the old rule that a good makeup-artist is always cheaper than doing it in Photoshop

Lol I tell myself that every time I do my TFCD shoots and start retouching.

[HuBBa]

Heh yeah the trick is to find a makeup artist who also wants pictures for her portfolio ;D

[BagLady]

...and a model with great skin!

[P_fuzz]

what the heck.... might as well put in a nice digital back and a hassel on the "need" category!!!!
hehehe

[BagLady]

Yes, that would help too! lol

[Verywierd]

Don't forget the lights. A 33inch Mola beauty light and a bunch of celing track mounted strobes would be nice.

[P_fuzz]

oooops.... forgot about lights....

mmmm I would love to shoot with those massive profoto octagon!!!!

cant have good photoshop without good photo to start with!

[Gewuerz]

Tony Kuyper has another good tutorial "The Burn/Dodge Layer Luminosity Painting" http://www.goodlight.us/writing/lumi...ainting-1.html

Gewuerz

[P_fuzz]

Originally Posted by Gewuerz

Tony Kuyper has another good tutorial "The Burn/Dodge Layer Luminosity Painting" http://www.goodlight.us/writing/lumi...ainting-1.html

Gewuerz

amazing tutorial... very technical! thanks....

[Verywierd]

I think that something people fail to mention when promoting D&B for serious retouch (not just a pimple) is that unlike degrunge, filters, actions, plugins, layer masks etc, D&B is really the digital equivalent of pencil sketching. And D&B retouch is like taking a completed pencil sketch, erasing a section and trying to redraw it to new specifications. If your pencil sketch ability is limited to matchstick men, then you are definitely going to have a lot of difficulty with extensive D&B. I'm not saying it can't be done, but just bear in mind what you are attempting.

[JavierT]

I agree Verywierd.

I am no very good with sketch, a probably need to spend more time to get good results with D&B but, with practices, you can get it and improve your skills.

[mayday]

The professional techniques for D&B have been discussed and explained in many threads here,
its a matter of practice.

You can master D&B with enough practice. But having good aesthetics to use D&B well is a harder skill to gain. Some people have it and can develop it more. Others will never have it. It's like taste!

[Verywierd]

Originally Posted by mayday

The professional techniques for D&B have been discussed and explained in many threads here,
its a matter of practice.

You can master D&B with enough practice. But having good aesthetics to use D&B well is a harder skill to gain. Some people have it and can develop it more. Others will never have it. It's like taste!

Exactly my point. D&B is discussed so often, yet newcomers are still confused and disappointed by their results, which is why you get threads like this one. More emphasis needs to be put on the fact that D&B involves a degree of artistic skill and is not a series of mechanical steps 1, 2, 3, and you get a definite result, like colour replacement using curves. Otherwise, people will keep searching for the "secret technique" that will magically make their D&B efforts a success.

[HuBBa]

I think that Amy Dresser PSD file that have been floating around proves that quite well. Someone actually commented on the D&B layer looked almost like she had taken the original image and somehow "magically" converted it, but in reality, what was done was very very careful painting and detailing which in the end almost looked like a pencil sketch of the original image.

There are no shortcuts when doing D&B. If you want quick and dirty look elsewhere. It is a bit like the Ferarri of retouching. It's not for everyone, but everyone seem to want one

[santajuana]

i must add that you need to know the human body and have basic knowledge of lightning to do dodge & burn, without them is a bit complicated to achieve a good result.

[ashphotoart]

I think ashkumar not want all these. He told that he readed many threads and discussions. He actually want to learn it on an image.

[Verywierd]

Originally Posted by ashphotoart

I think ashkumar not want all these. He told that he readed many threads and discussions. He actually want to learn it on an image.

I understand that. However, even if someone were to produce a 100 photograph sequence showing the original image, retoucher lightening a pixel here and darkening a pixel there, and the final flawless result, it would not tell him WHY the retoucher chose to change each of those particular pixels, and more importantly, how to do it correctly on a different image.

Anyone who has seen a good cartoonist draw a figure from scratch will know what I mean. It's like magic.

[snook305]

I would say they do that so you do not have that smudgy look where it was obvious you Cloned...
the Long tidiuos D&B method shows no after effect as you are just lightening or darkening the blemishes but leaving the original texture. Been doing that for many many years. Nothing new and no trick.
Most people Blur and Clone to death and it is so obvious where they have done it.
Some people do it on 2 curves layers or the softlight layer method. Both achieving the same thing.
Then you can use it to give more depth to your images.
Has 2 Uses really.
Snook

[P_fuzz]

Iam in love w/ DnB... especially to achieve depth and shape up things.... I have just used in some product shots job I did!!! Amazing!
All 3d fancy...........

[Markzebra]

Its true I think that its easier with some drawing experience. I recognise that the subtle shifting of tones that I need to do is easier for me because I would have spent years learning to draw as kid, particularly enjoying shading, subtly rubbing a pencil to darken and then rubbing the pencil or charcoal off to lighten. Some experience in this will make it second nature when using a wacom pen to do the same thing.

"Then you can use it to give more depth to your images. Has 2 Uses really" - thats right there's textural repair, and tone - two separate activities which you may like to keep separate. I try when I've got time to keep them separate because it makes things more editable.

[BagLady]

I think that the textural repair requires less artistic ability (but a lot of patience!), while adding depth definitely needs an artistic eye! I agree with keeping the two things separate... Curves for textural repair and a 50% gray, soft light layer for "sculpting".

[HuBBa]

heh just shows there are more ways to skin a model

I actually do it the opposite way around. I use curves for sculpting and a soft light layer for textural repair.

[ashkumar]

Thanks you all guys,

I've found a very good videio tutorial and that is exactly what I want. I learned this technique very well.

Thanks you so much all. Now I want to turn myself to use brushes. do you knows how to use brushes for eyebrow, lips, eyelashes. I'm going to create an seperate thread for it.

Ashkumar