Muddy desat look? Annie Leibowitz, Joey L.

[E Maguyon]

I know alot will reply that these types of looks and PPing is just a dragan, dave hill, joey l, etc style which is been done to death and is very "played out".

But I am still very interested how to achieve this look. I am talking about the micro-contrasts, muddy, dark desaturated effects more than anything and if there are unique/different methods of achieving these types of color and tones. (I already know theres significant B&Ding involved, so please save it)

Imho, each of them look pretty diff from each other. Dave hill technique is over sharpened, over contrasted, halos, unnatural, ugliest imo. Dragan just has a weird look to it with odd colors, temperatures, haze, halos, etc. Joey L is more subtle than the aforesaid more pleasing and realistic while still being contrasty and muddy. Annie Leibowitz imo is very similar to joey l PPing and maybe a bit more subtle & realistic at times (which is what im looking for).

(I already know joey l's multiply trick from his dvd. ie: 2 dupe layers, 1 multiply and desaturated, the 2nd normal and desat, then mask the multiply layer and erase areas where you want brighter/dodge, adj opacity, etc.)

Im looking for similar/better tricks and tips on achieving this desaturated, muddyness, microcontrast boosts, rich tone boosts similar to some of annie leibowitz's pics like the ones below (maybe unique blending mode combinations, diff colorspaces, etc.):



http://www.thestyleeditor.com/wp-con...d-campaign.jpg

http://www.contactpressimages.com/po...eib_port4l.jpg

http://www.shootingbynumbers.com/wp-...liebowitz1.jpg

http://cache.foxsaver.com/thumbnails.../65825846l.jpg

http://splendorific.files.wordpress....air_funny1.jpg

[Markzebra]

these things are relatively easy to achieve technically, but need some taste to do properly. A lot of whats going on with colour in those are that things are being unified, the Keith Richards shot as an example, all the greens and yellow taken into the same area, taking variation out. Its nothing crude like overall desaturation, play with it and let your taste determine where it goes. Thats just the colour side, there's a lot of quite nicely applied dodge and burn in there. Dont like the word muddy - of you are thinking of it like that then you should be working differently

[ktg222]

I liked Liebowitz's images of Queen Elizabeth, but a lot of her work, especially celebrity work and the composites, are ho-hum IMO. I don't get it. That said, she is probably making $10 million more a year than I am :-)

[Markzebra]

ha - depends whether its working or not, on who she's got doing her post I imagine.

[E Maguyon]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

these things are relatively easy to achieve technically

Ok, easy, so no tips on an "overall" layer or mask?

I gave the joey l tip..

And I already know the dragan one (b&w convert, invert, gaussian at hi pixel like 20-40, set blend mode to ovly/soft/hard. do some d&bing here n there). I didnt really like the effect on this one.

I know how to achieve the dave hill one, and really dont care for this look and actually hate it. Looks too HDR, icky.


..any other cool unique layer methods? But more similar to Annie's?

[garibaldi]

I too really like that look in these examples, and true, the colors are brought in to similar hues, but i think what we all would really like to know is what particular methos are used to do such a thing. its like a drab muted tone, and is harmonized within a specific toanl realm , like a brown, or olive, or mustard, but the highlights dont carry the same shift, the highlights are still white and the tone still remains natural looking.

Does anyone have REAL techniques on how to do it here?

[vapour]

The shot with Keith Richards is one of my favorite shots ever. The balance of strobe and ambient is amazing.

I'm sorry that I do not have anything to contribute however I would love to know if anyone else has any thoughts.

[snook305]

Not to mention it is Keith Richards...:+}
Take him out insert your last weeks model or Friend and not the same image at all.

You can most of annies backstage stuff and see her lighting, which is always really soft from extra big octobanks...and feathered.
She is using the Best Post Production company around...
Nice Light, Great Subject matter, great retouchers.... Hello...:+}
Snook

[Gee]

some guy said about the fiscus painted tones :

use a desat pic (no desat @ 100 ofc), but quite of desat. and paint slowly with colors in color mode. :|

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Gee

some guy said about the fiscus painted tones :

use a desat pic (no desat @ 100 ofc), but quite of desat. and paint slowly with colors in color mode. :|

WHAT ?? Can you be a little more specific?

[Gee]

yeah sorry

so basically, i don't remember who said that in a fiscus related thread, but this lead can be followed:

use a desaturated picture (under lr/cr etc) to have the tones really similar and not too catchy/flashy.

then, paint on a blank layer in color mode.
use a diff. layer for diff. color, play with fill/opacity etc etc.

[Kevin]

She is using a bunch of spot light strobes in the Keith Richards shot. Hard, shaped light. Nothing technical and she has a great eye for styling. The Queen shot is primarily natural light with some fill; either strobe or reflectors.

As with everyone else she is color correcting the tone to fit the mood of the shot. Really nothing magic, just a great photographer.
Cheers.

[andyong]

If you looking for micro-contrast, muddy, dark, desaturated...try this:
- 1 layer adjustment Hue/Sat=
Master : 0,-85,0
Red : 5,+85,-5
Yellow : 0,+40,-5
(i saw your sample images is keeping the yellow & red in saturated)
- duplicate that Hue/Sat layer adjustment, change the opacity to 50%, change the blending mode to SOFTLIGHT
- color balance go to your taste, going warm or cool tone.

this is sample before n after, since i don't have indoor images..i used my landscape image.
for me these steps gave me enough micro-contrast, muddy, dark, desaturated.

sorry for my english, if there's any mistake since i am not good in it..

[vapour]

http://www.dudleystudios.co.nz/clients/pcb/krbts.jpg

She is using a strobe... a softliter with a profoto head.

[E Maguyon]

Andyong,

thanks for sharing your trick. These are the types of tricks im (as well as others on here) are interested in

[andyong]

you're very welcome, E Maguyon

[mayday]

I would imagine most of the colour unifying is done with selective colour

[BobZZZ]

This may be a stupid question but what makes you think that these are digital as opposed to film. Most of Leibowitz's work has been on film and these sort of colour effects are typical of film processes.

[Markzebra]

… oh jesus.

[sidhebeauty]

I don't know if this is exactly what your looking for but ...

I started with a channel mixer adjustment layer, changing the color values to desat the colors a bit, and added a bit of green and cyan to the red channel.

Made second mixer adj layer at monochrome using mostly blue channel (nice contrast). Set on soft light.

Added some highlights w/ db layer

Duplicate to new document and merge. Used mixer again to convert to b/w. change mode to grayscale then quadtone. I used

Black
Pantone 541 CVC
Pantone 513 CVC
Pantone 5773 CVC

but choose the tones you like.

Copy this image back on top of your original layer stack and set to soft light. Play with opacity to get the desired effect.

Here is my before and after. Tell me what you think.

P.S. I didn't do any other retouching and did this one pretty fast so it's not perfect... I'm kinda a perfectionist.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l1.../daniel6ba.jpg

[E Maguyon]

Originally Posted by BobZZZ

This may be a stupid question but what makes you think that these are digital as opposed to film. Most of Leibowitz's work has been on film and these sort of colour effects are typical of film processes.

Of course some photographers use film, and also sometimes digital.

Here's a vid of one of her shoots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkbIAQrEf9c

Looks like digital to me, unless there is someway to tether a film camera to a laptop

Also compare the before (from the laptop tether preview [pamori on fredmiranda.com uploaded this]) & after pics:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/...61ec192b_o.jpg

http://adweek.blogs.com/adfreak/imag...hards-full.jpg

looks like alot of cloning/erasing of furniture, perspective fixes, composite fixes and moving certain things around as well.

[E Maguyon]

sidhebeauty. thanks, but you totally lost me, haha. Nice to see your interesting tips that are a little new to me (which is good, since its nice to see something new for a change)

How do you desat in channel mixer? Channel mixer I use for dif things, but not desturating.

Also, there is no cyan adjusting in channel mixer (unless you convert to cmyk first?)

Quadtone? Ive never used that.

..as for your example pics, nice and pretty interesting effect. Maybe a little too sharp and contrasty though (lost alot of detail on shadow/dark areas).

[Markzebra]

See that box at the bottom of your Channel mixer "monochrome"? well try it. If you really are still at the playing level, and you want to learn, also try a black&white adjustment layer now you can reduce its opacity, or perhaps set its mode to "Luminosity". Also perhaps a selective color layer underneath a hue/sat. There really are hundreds of colour techniques available, but its not these tricks themselves that will make you better.

[E Maguyon]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

See that box at the bottom of your Channel mixer "monochrome"? well try it. If you really are still at the playing level, and you want to learn, also try a black&white adjustment layer now you can reduce its opacity, or perhaps set its mode to "Luminosity". Also perhaps a selective color layer underneath a hue/sat. There really are hundreds of colour techniques available, but its not these tricks themselves that will make you better.

Yes, I've done alot of the monochrome channel mixer tricks in the past and dont really like the some things like the red fringing. So I rarely/never do them anymore.

B&W adjustment layer to multiply or other blending modes work good too, but its still missing something in the color department.



And I know these tricks wont make for a better photog. I just wanted to know new and interesting ways to achieve these tonal looks.

Anyone can easily post some thing like "its the complex multiple lighting setup, butterfly or rembrandt style lighting, with multiple kickers, grid spots here and there, fabulous set/prop builders, talented make up and hair artists, wardrobe stylists, etc., etc." which really doesnt help anyone.

[sidhebeauty]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say desat in channel mixer. I just mean to reduce the red values. And I meant blue not cyan. Just doing too much at once. Am at my "day job" at a newspaper and probably shouldn't be on retouchpro instead of working but... I eat, sleep and breathe this stuff so I end up sneaking on and posting as much as i can. lol

[E Maguyon]

thx for sharing..

i tried a channel mixer layer and balanced the red channel dropping it down, then upped both blue and green to balance the overall 100% mix.. Nice desat method!

i then did a monochrome channel mixer layer with upped the blue, then subtracted from red and green to also equal the same default percentage amounts...another nice trick

As for the quadtoning, cool stuff. Ive never played with quadtone layers yet, but it looks like endless fun. Lots of colors and tones, seems like an advanced color filter if laid out on top with a softlight mode..I wonder what else the duo/quadtones are good for.

[E Maguyon]

here the sample I did very quickly with sidhebeauty's technique.

I chose random tones for the quadtones. Did a messy, quick 20 second d&b. I also added a dupe to multiply and desat with a dupe underneath on normal and also desated, and erased portions of the top/multiply layer for a little light painting.

Whole thing quickly done in 3-5 mins with techniques learned just now, so excuse the crap quality and not well thought out colors or tones.

[sidhebeauty]

duo-, tri- and quadtones work wonders for a lot of things. For ex. you have a washed out pic and you want a down-n-dirty method for a warmer, more tan look with added depth do a duotone or tritone in shades of warm brown, set to softlight and drop opacity to taste. You can mask out areas that you don't want affected and voila! Or for a REALLY nice aged photo/sepia look create a black and brown duotone then use your normal sepia toning method on that ( photo filter, hue adjustment layer, whatever) Looks fab.

[andyong]

my try..:
- hue/sat layer adjustment,
masters : 0,-80,0
red : 0, +50, -10
yellow : 0, +50, -10
- duplicate that hue/sat layer adjustment, change blending to SOFTLIGHT, adjust opacity as u like.
- color balance: shadow go for cyan & blue, midtone go for red & yellow
- increase local contrast with hipass+gaussian blur method.
- done!

[julianmarsalis]

Originally Posted by andyong

my try..:
- hue/sat layer adjustment,
masters : 0,-80,0
red : 0, +50, -10
yellow : 0, +50, -10
- duplicate that hue/sat layer adjustment, change blending to SOFTLIGHT, adjust opacity as u like.
- color balance: shadow go for cyan & blue, midtone go for red & yellow
- increase local contrast with hipass+gaussian blur method.
- done!

Can you go into detail about your increase local contrast with hipass+gaussian blur method?????