Professional Vs Amatuer. Which retouch you choose?

[mlerrigo]

Hi all

The following is a retouch done for a local coverband. One done by a professional photographer, one done by an amatuer, and I'm one of these two. I'm not telling which is which (well, not yet anyway) so that you can give an unbiased opinion. Which would you choose for the bands website? and why? and which one is done by the professional?

I'll let you know after a few replies, but to some it may be obvious.....

original first, then retouch one, then retouch two

Thanks guys.....

[Scott Rogers]

For promotional use I like #3. It's edgy. Not the kind of retouch treatment for an anniversary portrait, but good for the unique promo intended use. That's my vote.

[igot2pman]

Not sure if were are suppost to give a real opinion of why, as it could sway others votes. If the poster says we can, then I will voice why.

I think the "pro" is Number 1... But in all honesty I see faults in both... my choice was based on the lessor of the issues and "pro" tendencys.

-Keven

[0lBaldy]

Originally Posted by mlerrigo

Hi all

One done by a professional photographer, one done by an amatuer. Which would you choose for the bands website? and why? and which one is done by the professional?
original first, then retouch one, then retouch two
Thanks guys.....

Neither one done by a professional Retoucher
I would not choose either because they both have blown highlights and lost detail..
(BUT, if I had to choose.. it would be #2 only because the eyes pop more.)
I would say the Photographer did #1 and I base that solely on the crop.. because that's what photographers do.

Added... I think the Photographer did them both (all three actually) because of the same in-consistency's in both retouches.. and I'm really not sure about the part of being a Professional Photographer either... (shooting at a low resolution .. 72 and at F4.5 does not give very much depth nor a Professional result)

[madclark]

If I had to choose one, I'd go with the second one. It maintains the most detail in the shadows and has the widest tonal range. But I dislike how the highlights are flattened in the face. And the eye whitening in the second is overdone and obvious even though the tonal range in the face is more authentic. I have issues with both though really.

[kajak]

i don't think either 1 way done by a pro..but i prefer the #1

[henkeman70]

Both are OK but #2 has a crispier feel to it. Hair look better, as do eyes.
As a single image I'd pic #2, but it comes down to in what context/setting the image is used.

[TommyO]

Originally Posted by mlerrigo

(a)...Which would you choose for the bands website? and why?

It depends on the mood of the site, other colors, size, etc. I choose edit #1, as it can be manipulated more regarding contrast if need be. As is, it's cropped a bit better and is a bit more moody.

Originally Posted by mlerrigo

(b)...and which one is done by the professional?

Unfortunately, a 72ppi image doesn't reveal much. I'd say edit #1.

[girlsfather]

I think #1 is the Photographers version. The skintone is better in my opinion. It is less obvious retouched. The crop is improving the picture.The shadows are darker than original - but I think this suits the BW picture.

#2 looks a bit too light, skintones blown away too much. Hard to tell in this size but seems to be oversharpened.

I would let the band make the decision which to choose ;-)

[David Stevenson]

#3 is my choice. #2 professional?

[Carlos Chizzini]

I like number 3.
The pro is number 2.

[studioeShane]

The issue seems a little confused to me. Some people like #1 and some like #2 or #3. I thought we were comparing the two black & white images and the first (color) was just the original. That being said, and not my problem really, I guess I don't really like either B&W image. At first I like the first B&W, but it seems soft and the second doesn't have enough detail in the skin and the eyes seem overdone. The fist B&W looks like it was transformed and enlarged, but is it distorted somewhat? It doesn't just seem larger, it seems shifted proportionately. But, the first B&W did crop out that extra skin in the bottom left and that is good. But I also take issue with the pose. I don't like how the girl on the left seems like she is leaning into and over the other two. Also I would never crop someone at the elbow. And those necklaces are distracting in the way they hang together. I think they could use a little space over their heads as well (just a little).

[Tareq]

What is the point here? to show if that pro retouch is not much better than amatuer retouch? Who care? if you like the pro retouch then thats it, if you prefer the amatuer retouch then blow that pro retouch out of water, just take what you like/prefer.

Just questions: in all this world, are those professionals suppose to have perfect great work always? and i am as a photographer, can't i become a professional if i am so great in taking photos but i am a dummy in retouching? And how much level of retouching that making the difference between the professional and the amatuer?

[0lBaldy]

Originally Posted by Tareq

What is the point here? to show if that pro retouch is not much better than amatuer retouch? Who care? if you like the pro retouch then thats it, if you prefer the amatuer retouch then blow that pro retouch out of water, just take what you like/prefer.

Just questions: in all this world, are those professionals suppose to have perfect great work always? and i am as a photographer, can't i become a professional if i am so great in taking photos but i am a dummy in retouching? And how much level of retouching that making the difference between the professional and the amatuer?

Only difference between Professional and amateur... Pro gets paid!.. both can be good or bad and do things at different levels..

Tareq, You are much better in both venues, photography and retouching, than some of the so-called professionals that I have been acquainted with!

I thought you were a PRO!!

[pixel_monkey]

I don't see any pro work here. This is a problem that we have to deal with at work more frequent than we want to. We're getting more and more of these so-called pro photogs sending in their retouched images, and basically, make our jobs miserable. Somehow, these photogs think they're also pro retoucher just because they own a copy of Photoshop. I'm at the point that I don't care if I'm going to offend their egos by asking for raw files. Seriously, stick with taking pictures and leave the retouching for us.

[Tareq]

Originally Posted by 0lBaldy

Only difference between Professional and amateur... Pro gets paid!.. both can be good or bad and do things at different levels..

Tareq, You are much better in both venues, photography and retouching, than some of the so-called professionals that I have been acquainted with!

I thought you were a PRO!!

Thanks!

I am trying to be a pro one day i hope, maybe now i am semi pro because i am chosen to choose a sports for football in my area sports club and they pay us so i can say i am semi pro maybe, but i hope i can turn it to a profession or career so then i work completely in photography and i always do my best in everything whether skills or equipments.

[CathyH]

Hi
If I had to choose I would pick the 1st b&w. I have a attached a copy with of what I think the retoucher's missed on both, this is just from a quick look and I'm not even commenting on the details.

cathy

here I added a quick version of what I think should have been done to start.

[igot2pman]

You forgot about the spotty (#1) or lack there of (#2) removal of the chest blemish in the left girl...

And personally, I don’t think the shirts of the outer girls should be nearly blacked out. I know the focus and the prettier one is the middle, but i think the other members at least deserve to have a body...

-Keven

[twopoint0]

Originally Posted by mlerrigo

Hi all

The following is a retouch done for a local coverband. One done by a professional photographer, one done by an amatuer, and I'm one of these two. I'm not telling which is which (well, not yet anyway) so that you can give an unbiased opinion. Which would you choose for the bands website? and why? and which one is done by the professional?

I'll let you know after a few replies, but to some it may be obvious.....

original first, then retouch one, then retouch two

Thanks guys.....

There are issues with both, but #2 should have retained all the data, not just copied one of the RGB channels and called it grayscale.
Besides, a pro photographer is NOT necessarily a pro retoucher.

[RokcetScientist]

Originally Posted by mlerrigo

The following is a retouch done for a local coverband. One done by a professional photographer, one done by an amatuer, and I'm one of these two. I'm not telling which is which (well, not yet anyway) so that you can give an unbiased opinion. Which would you choose for the bands website? and why? and which one is done by the professional?

I'll let you know after a few replies, but to some it may be obvious.....

original first, then retouch one, then retouch two

It shows that some, calling themselves 'professionals', really sell hot air/BS.

[...] I'm not telling which is which (well, not yet anyway) [...]

[...] I'll let you know after a few replies [...]

Is 48 hours and 5 replies enough?

[Liasson]

You asked for us to pick the one we think is more professional looking? If that's what you’re asking, I pick the second one. The first one looks to me that it is just a picture shot with a digital camera that needs touching up (a little flat). The third one is blown out...not good. The second one...well....it is easier on the eyes. It could use a little more luminosity adjustments. And the winner is……….No.2

[mlerrigo]

Originally Posted by RokcetScientist

It shows that some, calling themselves 'professionals', really sell hot air/BS.



Is 48 hours and 5 replies enough?

Sarcasm and rudeness make get you places in your world , but not in mine

[skauskas]

Originally Posted by 0lBaldy

Only difference between Professional and amateur... Pro gets paid!..

not only gets paid but gets paid good

from two BW versions I would go with the first one (If I really had to choose) because the second one is way overdone on the girls faces

[sluggo123]

The printing process should determine which one should be used. The contrast of no. 2 used to be the way to go. However, printers are much better today. But I would have the printer of the promo print one from both and then determine which way to go. Actually I prefer no. 1 B&W

[Bruce McLeester]

Originally Posted by CathyH

Hi
If I had to choose I would pick the 1st b&w. I have a attached a copy with of what I think the retoucher's missed on both, this is just from a quick look and I'm not even commenting on the details.

cathy

here I added a quick version of what I think should have been done to start.

I like what you did, cathy. It hadn't occurred to me to even up the size of their heads, but it makes a huge difference.

Bruce

[elementsphoto]

I like the second b&w more!

CathyH- nice work!!

[km6xz]

First post, be kind.

I am a complete amateur in retouching just getting into CS4 and have soooo much to learn. But for 25 years was quite a pro in the music field...you probably have albums I recorded, produced or were done in my studio.
As a customer of music and involved in creating an image for new bands over many years I would say photo 2 is the least adverse in the reaction it generates. There are problems with the basic photo, pose, fit and trim of clothing, are all unfortunate. But that is based on an assumed intended audience. Maybe their audience will be more positively responsive and the band, their manager and the photographer might be right on target, there is not enough evidence to guess other than the clothing.
A few safety pins would have done wonders in producing a more flattering drap of the top worn by the middle band member. The fleshy upper arm on the same woman is distracting because it has hi-contrast, The 3rd woman's hair style and position makes her head look way too big. The first woman has an attractive smile and ought to be more prominately displayed by changing position.
Due to the greater dynamic range and better prominence of the eyes, the 2nd photo (middle)would get my vote for a general audience and #3 if for a younger audience.

But what do I know, I am only a customer;>)

[RokcetScientist]

Originally Posted by mlerrigo

Sarcasm and rudeness make get you places in your world , but not in mine

Honi soît qui mal y pense, little quizmaster.

[Gobsmacked]

I think you should give the job to CathyH ! Bill

[CathyH]

Thanks Gobsmacked.
cathy