D&B question about greys

[Isedo]

Hi all,

I have red a a lot of threads here about d&b but can't understand which is the real goal when using a black layer in color blanding mode during the correction.

Is the goal to make this skin completly grey?
The problem is that when I use this technique, of course wiht a very low opacity brush (about 6%) I can't understand well ho much dodge couse in the final image I see some to light areas...

So, when i work in "black and white" mode, i have to uniform the greys as much I can or what? Can someone explain me better the process please?

Many thanks in advanxce to all.

[warrenj]

Hi,

I think you'll find the answer in this thread. http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...-download.html somewhere around post #20 I think.

[JavierT]

Hi Isedo:

I think you are refering to a set of layers used in a D&B tutorial video recently posted here.

There you can see two black layers, the bottom layer set to color or saturation blend mode ( this only rid off the color information but no affecting to contrast). The top layer (black one too) set to overlay (the retoucher changes this blend mode to softlight in many cases) increase dramatically the contrast of the image, letting you see much better the blemishes, etc).

In my opinion, the overlay blend mode is too heavy in most cases, therefore you have to turn it off and on continously, then you can avoid scratch more than you need. Softlight blend mode give you a more realistic look, increase the contrast enough to see the imperfections.

Dodge and Burning needs more than scratch and scratch and scratch, you have always to check your work continuosly, looking for color shifts, desaturated areas or anything you don´t need or have to fix.

Hope it helps....Javier

[Isedo]

Thanks guys.

Yes I refer to that video.
Thanks for your answers so so Much!. Ok so when i work in softlight mode I can see some blemishes and dark points.

Is the goal to make all the skin with an uniform gray color? I understand what d&b does and how to work with it but can't really understand well how much light or dark a blemish. I have to obtain an uniform grey color in all skin or like Javier says, check always the final result?

In that video the guy checks rarely the final result, it seems like he knows which kind of grey to obtain.

Hope you can understand my question, sorry for my bad english.

Isedo

[igot2pman]

A uniform grey is what you are trying to achieve. A normal slight blemish should not have a color shift. But for say a brown mole will give a reddish orange cast when dodged.

Also deep shadows sometimes do not have the same color temp as the main light. This gives them a cast. This occurs when you ambient light does not match your main light. So when dodged, you could end up with a green, orange, or other cast.

All can be fixed through making a new layer set to color blending mode. Sample nearby good skin and paint with a 70% opacity 50% fill brush. This will remove the cast and match the color.

The key is knowing what parts will more then likely give a color cast, then you can fix it with the color over method. Another way to counter the color cast is if your using the 50% grey filled softlight layer, you can paint with color instead of B&W. But you will have to turn off the black layer set to color blending mode (as it makes things B&W).

Hope it helps,
-Keven

[Isedo]

Many thanks, I have to read it more than one time and of course try to do that in the way to really understand. Maybe if I can, I'll post a part of the image and you can give me some suggestion.

It's ok for you?

Thanks to all guyz! Your help is very apreciated.

[Cuervo79]

Regarding these layers, do you guys find it easier to work with?
All the D&B I've done so far is without these B&W layers, when I find that the Dodge or Burn is making things gray or a different color I immediately add a solid color layer set to the skin color fill with black and paint over with 45% opacity brush.

[Isedo]

Originally Posted by Cuervo79

I immediately add a solid color layer set to the skin color fill with black and paint over with 45% opacity brush.

Please can you explain better this point?

Ciao,
Isedo

[Cuervo79]

lol Seems I miss typed, I fill it with the color of the skin not with black... that way the grayness or the change in tone disappears

[Fact]

Thanks for your explanation JavierT ;-).

[Miss Liz]

I believe the b&w layers are just to make it easier on your eyes so you won't be looking at colors the whole time. Also, I find that it helps me dodge and burn easily because I can see differences in the greys, so I dodge or burn depending on what the grey looks like.

Sorry, I'm not sure if I make sense.

Basically (to me anyway) the point is to make the greys balanced, like you said.

BUT, I can be wrong. But that's how it works for me, and I've had good results.

[Isedo]

Yes, my question is more regarding these greys. Onec I have the black and white layer and i don't see colors. Which kind of grey I have to obtain?

I have some more white areas and others more dark...so, there is some rule in the way to know with which kind of grey to uniform the skin?

Basically, how I cand know which must be the final grey tone of the skin? It's just about experience?

Thanks,
Isedo

[Cuervo79]

Isedo, I'm thinking this comes down to your vision, you're the one who will judge which is the right "grey" .

I've found that the layers help but sometimes they make you over work. When the B&W layers are up more areas that seem affected, but when you disable the B&W layers they're almost invisible. So even if you did do D&B on those parts in reality you're not making any progress.

At least that's what I've found in the past couple of retouched images I've done. It does help but you have to always check where do you really need to focus the D&B.

[Isedo]

Thanks for your kind answer man.
Mine problem is that I'm doing my frist d&b and the image is going to be to bright... :-D