Texture in skin!!

[bonou234]

Hey guys.....

LOVE this forum i have a question....

How does this 'textured' (rough look) in his skin work get achieved in post?

http://www.keslertran.com/port/portfolio.html

*** FULL CREDIT TO THE TOG IN QUESTION***

Its prevalent in ALL his images..what method is being used here?

Thanks in advance

Dan

[Kermy]

After all the relevant 'smoothing out' use a highpass filter, overlay it and adjust opacity. but i'm not a fan of this method you can tell easily that he hasn't spent the time in the smoothing out department. Just pretty much you bog standard surface blur method has been used, which really is not really the professional way to do things. The dead giveaway is that the skin cells have depth with shadow but have lost any specular highlight detail. Images are nice enough...

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Kermy

After all the relevant 'smoothing out' use a highpass filter, overlay it and adjust opacity. but i'm not a fan of this method you can tell easily that he hasn't spent the time in the smoothing out department. Just pretty much you bog standard surface blur method has been used, which really is not really the professional way to do things. The dead giveaway is that the skin cells have depth with shadow but have lost any specular highlight detail. Images are nice enough...

+ 1

Shame to use that in such nice pictures.

[Markzebra]

Those are nice pictures that have in some cases been blurred and ruined. Looks like at least 3 different retouchers working on them, with vastly different quality.

[Meaty0]

I'm not sure which images you're referring to, but some of them aren't too bad (at least to my untrained eye). Some of them, however, are tragic! Especially image No. 2 in his "Beauty Portfolio". I've seen better skin on a department store dummy! Such a shame to ruin his beautiful photography that way.

[ray12]

Hi Dan,

I agree...nice images.

The technique is called skin pore replacement. It has been used in New York, LA and London for some time...but is not a widely distributed workflow. His images are a combination of smoothing and skin pore texturizing...there is some unevenness in some of his images...but he liked the images...and everybody has their own judgements and threshold levels on smoothing and skin pore replacement...its a highly individual preference...and everybody likes to have it their own preferred way it seems. I agree...there is quite a range of quality from image to image.

This technique is becoming quite popular lately because many end-users have dwindling budgets to pay a retoucher to do a 6 hour $480 dodge and burn on their image. The replacement pores gets you a fairly realistic look if done well and takes only 5 or 10 minutes...so if the image is not for a magazine budget...then skin pore replacement is a way to get pores...with a reasonable budget... and with a reasonable timeframe.

Everybody has their own tastes, budgets and preferences for each image...and if done well with some skill and artistry...then the end images can be pretty gorgeous...thats where we are all trying to get to.

Some of the images in Kesler's portfolio are a touch over done and the pore effect is a bit splotchy and uneven and a bit strong or slightly missing in some places. Its a real judgement call on each image...and it takes skill as well as developed artistry to get that good looking balance. I like some of the images he is doing. He is making his statement.

We all are somewhere between raw reality and idealism and creating illusion in this marketplace. Each of us seems to have certain kinds of looks we favor. All of us are beginners at something and we do it awkwardly at first...so we practice hard... and it gets better over time. At some place along the way... we make our own kind of preferred art...based on what we like... and where we are AT right now. We use and experiment with many different kinds of available media and various techniques in our quest...someday life will stop changing...and we will be happy... with that one special perfect image we created.

Ray12

[Markzebra]

Ah the guilty come to light - 'Featuring "The New York style of Retouching'! - that's just completely laughable.

To be honest there are one or two quicker methods than D&B, still requiring some judgement - that will produce much better results than that quite obviously blurred look. The base texture is completely wrong, and if it took as long as 20 minutes then that's ridiculous.

Its worrying that people are seriously thinking of setting up 'Customized Retouch Training and and Professional Retouching Resources' who clearly are going to turn every beginner that goes there into a smudger. There was an epidemic of this a few years ago.

[Meaty0]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

To be honest there are one or two quicker methods than D&B, still requiring some judgement - that will produce much better results than that quite obviously blurred look.

Do tell! Which methods???

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

Ah the guilty come to light - 'Featuring "The New York style of Retouching'! - that's just completely laughable.

To be honest there are one or two quicker methods than D&B, still requiring some judgement - that will produce much better results than that quite obviously blurred look. The base texture is completely wrong, and if it took as long as 20 minutes then that's ridiculous.

Its worrying that people are seriously thinking of setting up 'Customized Retouch Training and and Professional Retouching Resources' who clearly are going to turn every beginner that goes there into a smudger. There was an epidemic of this a few years ago.

Wait... so that's not how the big dogs do it?

/me shocked

[LostHighway]

the blurred method is noticeable in all the galleries, specially all the beauty section.
on the editorial/fashion is minor, but it's still there, destroying some good portraits with a very good ligth (or maybe he retouched the light too).

The technique is called skin pore replacement. It has been used in New York, LA and London for some time...but is not a widely distributed workflow. His images are a combination of smoothing and skin pore texturizing...there is some unevenness in some of his images...but he liked the images...and everybody has their own judgements and threshold levels on smoothing and skin pore replacement...its a highly individual preference...and everybody likes to have it their own preferred way it seems. I agree...there is quite a range of quality from image to image.

i'm very curious about this method.
more info or some link about it?

[Markzebra]

Do tell! Which methods???

Sorry, no. Why? same reason you don't give a six year old a razor blade. Best method will always require hard work, and craft - and that's the place to start. If you don't start there, you have accidents.

Wait... so that's not how the big dogs do it? /me shocked

Yeah yeah - I never said that. And I'm not sure what a 'big dog' is either.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

Yeah yeah - I never said that. And I'm not sure what a 'big dog' is either.

Danish Hound (?)

I think I'm going o start using blur more... They re doing it in NY so I think I'm spending too much time on each picture... bad for biz

I like u, don't be mean with me

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Meaty0

Do tell! Which methods???

Originally Posted by Markzebra

Sorry, no. Why? same reason you don't give a six year old a razor blade. Best method will always require hard work, and craft - and that's the place to start. If you don't start there, you have accidents.

What he said (in his very special way <3 ) is that even if u know the "shortcuts" they won't help u if u don't understand the basis first.

x

[Markzebra]

I think I'm going to start using blur more...

Yep if its the 'New York Look', I think I might too. According to Google I guess it means this type of thing http://www.newyorkfacialplasticsurgery.com/ http://www.drphilipmiller.com/ and http://www.cosmeticsurgery.com/find/states/New-York/ 0 - great results eh.

I like you as well Godmother. If you care to sit on my knee sometime, I'll show my technical instructions, no probs.

[vapour]

Funny conversation...

I saw a recent W Magazine cover shot of Amy Adams here...
http://www.imnotobsessed.com/files/i...0wmagazine.jpg

Is there some blurring going on in her face retouching?

Or what about D&G's ad with Scarlett...
http://extremebeautyinvogue.files.wo...k_scarlett.jpg

Zero pores or texture, yet it still works. Amazing. I guess its just painful hours of cloning/healing and D&B?

[LostHighway]

Originally Posted by vapour

Funny conversation...

I saw a recent W Magazine cover shot of Amy Adams here...
http://www.imnotobsessed.com/files/i...0wmagazine.jpg

Is there some blurring going on in her face retouching?

Or what about D&G's ad with Scarlett...
http://extremebeautyinvogue.files.wo...k_scarlett.jpg

Zero pores or texture, yet it still works. Amazing. I guess its just painful hours of cloning/healing and D&B?

hm, very interesting, but i think it's a very different stuff than beauty.
beauty is totally opposite to editorial/fashion if we talk about INTENTIONS.

both are trying to sell (products, clothes...whatever) but beauty has the mission to convince the women (98% ads) and men (2% ads) to stay young and smooth.

the Scarlett's case is different. they are re-creating a myth: MARILYN.
so the mission is not about skin, it's about stylish and at first sight look back in the days to remember a celebrity. there's not Scarlett there, she is Marilyn

[Markzebra]

That's very well described Losthighway. I don't like the Amy Adams one, looks like a lazy shortcut. The other one - well its an 'illustration'. If she didn't have the beauty spot it would be lost.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

I like you as well Godmother. If you care to sit on my knee sometime, I'll show my technical instructions, no probs.

Was that naughty????

lol

[snook305]

Godmother you are so damn helpful it is amazing.
Pouring through your post is like a mountain of Helpful Information..

I must admit that I may be cocky some times but your in another League/Planet.
You must have such a bitter life. Really amazes me.

You might want to take Mark up on his offer because with your attitude it might be the last and only chance to get some of that anger released...

You claim to help people but it sounds like you claim to be a know ait all and your post are arrogant and useless in most cases.

Snook


By the look of your website you could probably learn some of those New York Texture techniques...

[vapour]

Originally Posted by LostHighway

the Scarlett's case is different. they are re-creating a myth: MARILYN.
so the mission is not about skin, it's about stylish and at first sight look back in the days to remember a celebrity. there's not Scarlett there, she is Marilyn

Interesting comment/philosophy and I agree, though not helpful to my inquiring about the actual Photoshop technique.

Originally Posted by Markzebra

That's very well described Losthighway. I don't like the Amy Adams one, looks like a lazy shortcut. The other one - well its an 'illustration'. If she didn't have the beauty spot it would be lost.

Again... yes it is illustrated looking, but did they use a form of blur. Or was it a 12-hour pixel-level D&B job.

Not that I was expecting an answer immediately, but this thread has turned into what many of these other threads become. Back and forth nonsense with little to no discussion on the retouching process and the real world techniques to accomplish the end result.

[Markzebra]

"but did they use a form of blur." no, highlights and form are too precise, blurring destroys not just texture, but tonal relationships. Precise work is the likely method. If you look at how subtle the tones, and color shifts are in there you can still see a naturalism. In addition, if you zoom in, even on this small jpeg, you will see that there is visible noise pattern which flows around the forms, see below. Texture's been knocked back, sure but probably manually.

[vapour]

Thank you Mark, very good observation. When you say "precise work" and "probably manually" what does that entail?

[LostHighway]

hey vapour sorry if i turned the topic, it wasn't my intention.

about the technique, i can't describe it cause i really don't know if exists a skin postprocessing here. i'm with Mark in all he said, but i can see a high key lightning here as well if we talk about photography.

i vote for a good healing+shadows correction+good lightning and make up.

[Markzebra]

"precise work" and "probably manually" what does that entail?

It entails looking at the skin in high detail, dodging and burning to flatten texture, but not eliminate it - moving texture that type of thing. Most probably.

[vapour]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

ahem moving texture

what do you mean by this?

[Markzebra]

Don't know I'm drunk - taking it from one place and sticking it in another, I guess. You might find the clone Stamp, introduced 20 years ago, might help here.

[Meaty0]

So far, the most helpful information I've been able to glean from this thread is, the info supplied by ray12. (Thanks Ray!)

I haven't seen anyone come up with anything else of substance, that would be a viable alternative to hours and hours of D&B on each image. Sometimes, my shoots will produce dozens of images that are worthy of processing. I don't have time to spend maybe more than two or three hours on every image.

[snook305]

Ditto, Ray has ome great techniques and is one of the few helpful people in these forums.. at least top of the line.
Snook

[skauskas]

Originally Posted by Markzebra

I like you as well Godmother. If you care to sit on my knee sometime, I'll show my technical instructions, no probs.

This forum is getting better and better

[LostHighway]

i'm still curious about "skin pore replacement".
what is exactly?