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Problems with bad skin

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  #21  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:24 PM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Ok, help then: you need to do your dodge and burn (cough) without destroying the texture completely. The point of the exercise is not to flatten texture off to the point that its no longer visible. Its unifying it, in some cases painting it out, and in some painting it in maybe. Sure some kind of slight contrast curve and a desat can help in visualizing tone, but switching it off and knowing how to work without these aids is also worthwhile.

There you go - NOW because I find this intriguing… after analysing your After and Before images its clear that the texture in the area you have 'retouched' (because there is some at low opacity over what still looks like a blur) bears no relation to the texture in the before image. Its finer, more dense, with completely different highs and lows. Stranger and stranger.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:43 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Cuervo, Can you post a large screen shot of the100% crop of your Dodge and Burn working layer along with the brush size and opacity you are using...
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:58 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

… curves masks, gray layer or whatever, and layers panel … and a picture of your kitchen with the coffee machine? Thanks

Last edited by Markzebra; 09-13-2009 at 11:52 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-04-2009, 08:31 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markzebra View Post
Ok, help then: you need to do your dodge and burn (cough) without destroying the texture completely. The point of the exercise is not to flatten texture off to the point that its no longer visible. Its unifying it, in some cases painting it out, and in some painting it in maybe. Sure some kind of slight contrast curve and a desat can help in visualizing tone, but switching it off and knowing how to work without these aids is also worthwhile.

There you go - NOW because I find this intriguing… after analysing your After and Before images its clear that the texture in the area you have 'retouched' (because there is some at low opacity over what still looks like a blur) bears no relation to the texture in the before image. Its finer, more dense, with completely different highs and lows. Stranger and stranger.
Right, you're still interested in me validating my statement which is something I'm not interested in doing since it won't help my problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markzebra View Post
… and a screen shot of the dodge and burn layers (curves masks, gray layer or whatever), and layers panel … oh yeah and a picture of your kitchen with the coffee machine?
As I said, you're not posting anything helpful with your comments. I would ask you to refrain from posting in my thread if you're not honestly interested in helping....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0lBaldy View Post
Cuervo, Can you post a large screen shot of the100% crop of your Dodge and Burn working layer along with the brush size and opacity you are using...
I have 4 layers 2 for "rougher" D&B and 2 for "fine detail" I use opacities from 5 to 20% and the same with flow, the size of the brush varies all over the place I can go as big as 20 or as little as 2.

OK the masks are as follows
RoughL Dodges big things
RoughD Burns big things
FineD Burns details
FineL Dodges details

I can't give the exact crop since I didn't save it these are 100% size
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RhoughL.jpg (99.7 KB, 136 views)
File Type: jpg RoughD.jpg (70.0 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg FineD.jpg (73.6 KB, 104 views)
File Type: jpg FineL.jpg (96.8 KB, 106 views)
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2009, 08:49 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Good lord - I take it all back! Can see you've worked quite hard. First part of my comment in #21 was intended to be helpful, sorry.
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  #26  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:05 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Yeah the "cough" bit did not help... Seems like you didn't read my other posts, so you just explained the basics of D&B. Which again does not help my current situation.
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  #27  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:19 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Ok - the problem with the before image that you posted (which I now accept must be genuine! sorry) is that part of the texture looks out of focus. Did you compress it horizontally for posting? On the curve layers your work is quite precise. It almost looks as if that out of focus, large pored area needs to be given more texture not less. Texture can be moved as well as dodged and burned you know. I can also now see that your intricate dodge and burn on a soft original has CREATED the textural differences I saw. The tip i gave about your preview sets also stands. I can see that you are trying very hard and feel guilt or having doubted and do apologize.

Last edited by Markzebra; 08-04-2009 at 09:26 PM.
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  #28  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:27 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Nothing was done to the image except cropping. What you see as blur in the original image is the use of a macro lens and a very shallow depth of field (even though it was at F9).

With the last part of the comment, you're starting to understand my predicament, and I'm starting to get convinced that its better to remove the pores in the out of focus area of the photo and keep going as I'm going or start again from scratch (which would be my last resort)
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  #29  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:55 PM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Cuervo, have you tried opening a new window using Window>Documents>New Window and keep this window @ 100 or 200% go back to your working window and magnify to whatever magnification you are doing the D&B... keep both windows open and in view... side by side or if you have dual monitors keep one on the other monitor.... as you proceed with the D&B the results will show real-time in the new window.. this way you can see the effect of what you are doing and make corrections on the fly..(keeps you from switching back and forth and turning layers off and on as much)

I am aware that you don't like using a Grey softlight layer BUT in Chris Tarantino's Blog, post "Dodge and Burn Confusion" he has some good reasons why the Grey layer should be considered and incorporated into what you are doing.
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  #30  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:58 AM
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Re: Problems with bad skin

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0lBaldy View Post
Cuervo, have you tried opening a new window using Window>Documents>New Window and keep this window @ 100 or 200% go back to your working window and magnify to whatever magnification you are doing the D&B... keep both windows open and in view... side by side or if you have dual monitors keep one on the other monitor.... as you proceed with the D&B the results will show real-time in the new window.. this way you can see the effect of what you are doing and make corrections on the fly..(keeps you from switching back and forth and turning layers off and on as much)

I am aware that you don't like using a Grey softlight layer BUT in Chris Tarantino's Blog, post "Dodge and Burn Confusion" he has some good reasons why the Grey layer should be considered and incorporated into what you are doing.
Thank you for the idea 0lBaldy, that seems interesting, although I'll have to try it since I do have 2 monitors one is LCD the other CRT and there's always a bit of a difference between the two. I'll keep it in mind and see if I can add it to my arsenal.

Regarding the article from Mr. Tarantino, there wasn't anything that he mentioned in the that makes me think a gray layer with both dodge and burn information in it would be a better route than having 2 separate solid color layers one in black the other in white and both set to soft light (I do not use curves layers, but have thought about using them). He did mention that he prefers to use soft light to any other layer option and I agree with what he had to say about it. On the rest I agree completely with what he wrote.

As I said the problem I'm seeing has to do with my "visualization" layers I had 3 layers 1 to desaturate 1 to darken and add contrast and 1 a curves layer to control the overall contrast one way or another. Seems like the second layer that darkens and adds contrast is irrelevant and actually makes me go overboard. So I'm going to stop using it, I'm thinking that this will help me retouch less "brutally" than what I have been doing, specially in areas where the depth of field doesn't let me completely remove the "bad" texture.

Again thank you for the 2 suggestions.

Cheers
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