RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Make UP

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:51 AM
Godmother's Avatar
Godmother Godmother is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 814
Make UP

so.. a make up artist said in a forum that photoshop was no competition for a MUA... I Agree that MUAs are VERY important when shooting but her attitude and rudeness bothered me enough to try something out...

What do you guys think ?

BIG IMAGES THO

Original - www.nataliataffarel.com/origSoft.jpg

Retouch and Natural Make up - www.nataliataffarel.com/Soft.jpg

Make Up CRAZY

http://www.nataliataffarel.com/Soft_Sand.jpg
http://www.nataliataffarel.com/Soft_Punk.jpg
http://www.nataliataffarel.com/PrettyinPink.jpg
http://www.nataliataffarel.com/Soft_gray.jpg

hit me!

xx

Original by Grant Thomas @ http://grant-thomas.daportfolio.com/

Last edited by Godmother; 08-11-2009 at 01:26 PM. Reason: forgot to credit :S
Reply With Quote top
  #2  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:08 PM
viper7 viper7 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11
Re: Make UP

God Mother , iam new to retouching , and your work i mean all the images to me Look fantastic great job
Reply With Quote top
  #3  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:27 PM
ilbm's Avatar
ilbm ilbm is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Re: Make UP

I think you've done an amazing job. Looks really natural. One thing I think you shrunk the ear on the right just a tad to much. Other then that flawless digital makeup!!!
Reply With Quote top
  #4  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:51 PM
KR1156 KR1156 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: outside of the box.
Posts: 628
Re: Make UP

take an image, shot from a larger digital back, p30, 45 etc....and of an extreme macro close up of an eye, or lips, and recreate that makeup, or lipstick...and i'd be impressed!

and i'm not talking about colorizing some skin with a couple curves, i'm talking about natural makeup texture, and weight to it. the way 2 color look when they're blended into each other naturally, the glimmer and shine that comes in makeup texture, the way it sits ontop of skin.

that would be an interesting challenge if anyone has any photogs have an worthy images to play with.
Reply With Quote top
  #5  
Old 08-11-2009, 01:27 PM
Godmother's Avatar
Godmother Godmother is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 814
Re: Make UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper7 View Post
God Mother , iam new to retouching , and your work i mean all the images to me Look fantastic great job
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilbm View Post
I think you've done an amazing job. Looks really natural. One thing I think you shrunk the ear on the right just a tad to much. Other then that flawless digital makeup!!!

Thank u.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KR1156 View Post
take an image, shot from a larger digital back, p30, 45 etc....and of an extreme macro close up of an eye, or lips, and recreate that makeup, or lipstick...and i'd be impressed!
that would be an interesting challenge if anyone has any photogs have an worthy images to play with.
I agree.
x
Reply With Quote top
  #6  
Old 08-11-2009, 02:11 PM
Cuervo79's Avatar
Cuervo79 Cuervo79 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 372
Re: Make UP

I agree with KR1156, BUT there are lots of stuff you can do with no need of a MUA. They ARE important but in this day in age, digital retouch is as important as a MUA. Besides anyone with the attitude Godmother described is out of her mind.
Reply With Quote top
  #7  
Old 08-11-2009, 03:53 PM
seattle-light's Avatar
seattle-light seattle-light is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC (formerly Seattle and New York)
Posts: 133
Re: Make UP

Dear Godmother,

I think you're fishing for compliments here, but I'll take the bait.

These are terrific before and after images, and they show your considerable skill as a retoucher. I didn't see the original post by the makeup artist, so I have no way to judge her tone or reported "rudeness". But I do think that an excellent makeup artist saves a lot of headaches when it come time for retouching an image. Bad makeup is a whole other subject. The original image you present is fine as a capture, but it probably doesn't match what the photographer saw as he was looking through the viewfinder (much less his creative vision for the image -- which might not have been as naturalistic as that of the makeup artist). The raw capture isn't stunning, but the raw capture probably was never meant to be the finished product -- it's an image in the process of being crafted.

But it seems like a kind of unfair example, because it's not the work of the makeup artist who's doing the complaining. It doesn't show how far good makeup can go in helping to create a stunning image.

The fact is that the camera captures visual information quite differently than the human eye sees and the brain perceives it. That can yield strange color shifts, blotchy looking skin, unusual surface textures, and a whole host of other maladies that would be painful and time consuming to address using makeup and lighting alone. And the camera's interpretation of the world is often quite unnatural. So leaving an image alone doesn't necessarily make it "natural". Beyond making things look more natural, retouching is all about creative vision, subjective choices and personal taste. And people can legitimately disagree about the direction(s) a project takes. You simply can't please everyone (someone will always like the unretouched version of an image). All you can do is try to create a compelling image that serves its intended purpose.

I can understand a makeup artist being upset if they feel someone has been playing fast and loose with "their" work, but that's working under the assumption that it's an individual art project -- when in fact it's a team effort. Great images don't just happen. It takes a studio, a model, a stylist, a makeup artist, a photographer, a few assistants, a good caterer, a retoucher (and often an art director, creative director, and let's not forget the client and the account executive) working in close collaboration to achieve something that's memorable (and even then there's a lot of luck involved).

And then there is plenty of room for a makeup artist to be bitter about good makeup work being trashed by ham-handed retouching (and there's plenty of that out there). Or for not getting work as a makeup artist because all the beauty work on a project is going to be done in post.

Your retouching work is pristine here, but that takes nothing away from the makeup artist on the shoot. I suppose a makeup artist could use an unretouched version if they prefered it and the photographer agreed to it.

And if you want to score big points with a whining makeup artist you could do a quick variation of the image that is more closely aligned with their particular vision of the project -- again with the permission of the photographer. But I'd be careful about trying to placate a whiner on the set as it makes them feel justified in their whining.

But complaining about the retouching is not going to score any points with a photographer. The question arises are you there to help support the project or to question everything (and if you're going to be questioning, you'd better be good enough at what you do to justify being such a royal pain in the butt, whether you're a makeup artist or a retoucher). The goal for a makeup artist or retoucher should be to be involved in great projects that yield stunning results (and that pay reasonably well). And most of those projects require both a great makeup artist and a great retoucher.

Sometimes the resulting images are going to be more highly stylized than a makeup artist might prefer. And if the photography and retouching don't meet expectations as a makeup artist, then one should look to work with different photographers and retouchers whose style is a better fit. One should be should be nurturing the relationships that yield fabulous work and not be trying to put down other people who are ostensibly on same the team. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the process. It's not a game of king of the hill. You don't improve your position by pushing someone else off.

Still everyone needs to understand that a makeup artist is an artist, and you probably don't want a makeup artist working on a project in the studio who isn't passionate about their creative work (and some ego is bound to go along with that). Their talent and obsession for detail can help make a project soar. But their creative connection to the project won't disappear when the shoot wraps. And not every project will have a happy ending for them. Even when makeup artists on projects have incredible skills, their creative flourishes are often edited out in post (usually to the improvement of the image, but not showing the makeup artists talent and hard work so prominently).

But if a person wants to control everything then they should either do it all themselves or assembling/hiring the team to work on the project (but that involves shelling out some cash). Or stage an independent makeup art exhibition.

Makeup artists may be able take some behind the scenes shots of makeup work to show their work as it really was, but generally they're hired to serve the photographer's creative vision. So they probably shouldn't be telling the photographer how to shoot the model or where to place the lights. In most cases, the photographer's shots and choices are going to look better (or they're working with the wrong photographers). And they shouldn't be second guessing the choices of the retoucher. In the end, it's not about pleasing the makeup artist or the retoucher or even the photographer. And one shouldn't be in the business of second guessing unless they're also involved in the business of bringing in business and satisfying clients.

One thing is sure in my mind, if that makeup artist had hired you to retouch images you would have completely exceeded her expectations in terms of quality (even while serving her particular vision for the image). And in the end she would be able to see the compelling difference a great retoucher can make in an image. And then she'd wonder how she ever got by without you. Funny how a positive experience can change one's perspective.

Put a bunch of creative people in a room together, and they certainly won't all have the same creative vision. But sometimes that creative conflict can help generate incredible work. The key is managing those differences of opinion (often substantial) and harnessing the creative energy.

We don't all have to agree on everything. As a retoucher, it's not your job to make any one person happy. Your job is to serve the image and the creative vision of your client.

Makeup artists may be better than Photoshop. Photoshop is just a program. It's like saying that retouchers are better than makeup sponges. But makeup artist aren't better than retouchers. And retouchers aren't better than makeup artists. It's not a competition or a choice. You need both. Both play critical roles in creating great images.
Reply With Quote top
  #8  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:17 PM
HelloPiccadilly HelloPiccadilly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: russia
Posts: 232
Re: Make UP

Godmother, It would be awesome to see some video tutorial from you!=) Great job!

My opinion that MUA is quite important part of the process for creating great pictures as well as retoucher and photographer =)
Reply With Quote top
  #9  
Old 08-11-2009, 05:42 PM
Godmother's Avatar
Godmother Godmother is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 814
Re: Make UP

Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle-light View Post
Dear Godmother,

I think you're fishing for compliments here, but I'll take the bait.
nah I wasn't looking for compliments... she pissed me off and i wanted to see if someone found it funny


Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle-light View Post
if that makeup artist had hired you to retouch images you would have completely exceeded her expectations in terms of quality (even while serving her particular vision for the image)
I'd NEVER do this to an image for a Make up artist - I know my target

Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle-light View Post
Makeup artists may be better than Photoshop. Photoshop is just a program. It's like saying that retouchers are better than makeup sponges. But makeup artist aren't better than retouchers. And retouchers aren't better than makeup artists. It's not a competition or a choice. You need both. Both play critical roles in creating great images.
That's EXACTLY my point - Photoshop is a part of the process like MAKE UP

Bad make up can break an image and bad photoshop can do the same.


She had the "I'm a true artist and I'm so much better than a monkey using photoshop" that was her .... attitude and it bugged me.

I was just playing around, there's no client here just a point to be made.

This was not done to compare original MAKE UP with retouched MAKE UP

I did it to show make up done entirelly with photoshop

I did it to make a point

I did it to show persons like her they should be nicer to retouchers and don't have such an attitude with them (us)
Reply With Quote top
  #10  
Old 08-11-2009, 06:00 PM
0lBaldy's Avatar
0lBaldy 0lBaldy is offline
Senior Member
Patron
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,580
Re: Make UP

seattle-light, Welcome to RetouchPRO

Except maybe for the fishing inferance... well said...

If ever I have the need for arbitration... are you available?
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First time using D&B to make the skin smoother... neofragoso Photo Retouching 4 11-26-2008 12:59 PM
How to make it better shanafagan Image Help 11 11-22-2008 05:42 PM
How to make silver skin like this? RoninAdauchi Photo Retouching 2 11-18-2008 08:54 PM
How make large mosaic art with your PC and printer. The Dude Input/Output/Workflow 2 12-18-2006 12:55 PM
How to make a frame like this one mikek Image Help 6 02-17-2004 02:48 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved