Steven Meisel - Color Correction

[vapour]

I am curious as to what type of color correction went in to the following photograph...

http://www.dizaini.lv/wp-content/upl...n-meisel-1.jpg

I'm assuming Photoshop was used to color correct this. The skin has a very even tone which suggests to me perhaps some gradient mapping was done? As well as the clothes look pretty even.

I don't know it just has a very 'film' type look to it. Anyone care comment / dissect?

Thanks

[vapour]

Another shot that has this similar feel is this shot:

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/...is_vuitton.jpg

[Sinisa]

(first image)


this is clearly a comp.


hard to comment on colour without seeing (?) the raw... it was probably shot with a greenish fluorescent cast.

[vapour]

I'm still curious about the color correction, but what suggests that this is a composite?

[Cuervo79]

Originally Posted by vapour

I'm still curious about the color correction, but what suggests that this is a composite?

look at the edge of the model in the upper left corner on her head... the outline is too sharp and the shadows are a bit bland compared to the rest. Besides the lighting is off in all of the models. Meaning they where not lighten together in one photo

[htown]

Not to mention that it would be a lot easier to pose the models one at a time either in the scene or green screen it and put them in later, probably the former.

[Gee]

i really liked the madonna's set.
cool pics. cool contrast control etc. really nicely done.

[toan thai]

it's hard to tell. for instance, the madonna pic looks different from one magazine to the next. i've seen a few versions with slight shift in colors.

[vapour]

@toan yes I've seen the Madonna ad several times in many ads and due to printing variables and web formats its different many times over.

But if you were just to base, for example the first image, what type of color correcting has gone on to achieve the color correction that was done? Is Curves about the only tool that was used?

[toan thai]

vapour: doing so i'd do a disservice since i don't know where this photo came from and what the raw looked like. lets just say if i were to duplicate this particular subway train shot, i'd definitely use curves to add contrast and cyan; hue/sat to desaturate the image a bit. i wouldn't go that far to make the reclining girl that dark--no details on her coat and legs.

[vapour]

Do you think that each individual piece was modified? IE. the retoucher individually with the pen tool or what have you, made masks for each individual outfit, individual skin, shoes, windows, seats etc. and modified those selections with curves?

On top of that probably some global adjustments to make the piece look cohesive?

[Cuervo79]

The problem as many others have pointed out is that we don't know what actually was done because we don't have the RAW file to look at.

A better thing is for you to try to take or have access to a similar photo, and then retouch it to try to emulate the look. When you're stumped then you can ask for what people think it could help to emulate the look.

[vapour]

Yes I understand, and I doubt I'll get a hold of the original.

I guess I didn't know if someone who is used to retouching images like this (I know there are some hi end people here) could tell right away.

[Praha]

Vapour, there's really not one thing or some other thing that went into the color correction of this image. I'm sure it just the application of all of the usual techniques -- curves, selective color, hue/saturation, brushing, etc etc., applied selectively to the various parts of the photo. I also completely agree that this final image is a composite of several shots. He just kept the camera in one position, maybe shooting the train empty, with various exposures, and then shot the girls separately in the train (or maybe sometimes a couple together) and lit each girl for the effect he wanted. If he had to he retouched out the lighting tools from the pics. The lighting and posing is just too perfect on all of the girls for me to believe that it's all in camera, regardless of how good the models are. You can click on this link to see and read about how a composited image was shot in a another subway car... http://www.thefstopmag.com/?p=259

[vapour]

Good link.

So do you think though that the models were actually in the train or do you think they could of been shot in the studio?

I understand individually lighting each subject and masking the scene together, Dave Hill use to do this a lot.

[Cuervo79]

Again vapour, all you will get here are guesstimates. I would think one of the models that may have been shot separately (not on the car) may be the one I mentioned that looks more "pasted in than the others" the model on the upper left corner. But in actuality who can know for sure. As you saw in the Annie Leibowitz thread...

[Praha]

I'd say that all of the models were shot in the train, but I wouldn't be super surprised if Cuervo were right about the fourth model... I can see the client saying, "Hmm.... there's some space up there, and maybe we should have four outfits in the campaign, couldn't we shoot a girl to fit up on top of the seats...?"

[DJSoulglo]

All 4 were shot in the train I think, though obviously all 4 were pasted in from 4 different shots, and some parts are from different shots as well.

Color correction on all garments to make them look like the product. And the overall tone I quite like. It's a bit desaturated, with a green/yellow tint over the whole thing. It feels like "old" photography. Nice shots.

[Guess the Light]

I think it's a very long exposure using only the subway's florescent lighting. That's what gives everything the greenish cast. If you're interested in seeing more of how famous photographers light their images, check out: http://www.guessthelighting.com

[r*po]

most images you see like this are usually composites, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is all cut and paste. When shooting multiple models it's rare you get a shot where each one has the exact pose and expression you want. To me it does look like they were all shot on the train as that upper left florescent light on the train seems to be the key lighting on each models face. Again though, its just my guess. It also looks like they went to a lot of trouble to find girls that looked similar and made them up to look alike. If their plan was to comp in four separate girls they probably would have just doubled one of them up.

I would be surprised about the theory on adding the fourth later. Usually on shoots at this level the client is there and they get a really good idea of what the final shot will be and most of the problem solving happens on the day and they arent really prone to leaving large empty spaces that will perfectly accommodate a fourth model later.

Its easier if you can get as much in the shot as possible and thats why they spend the money on the sets they build and lighting and hire people like Steven Meisel. As other people have pointed out the best way to get that greenish tint is shooting with florescent light in the beginning and it looks like he used a lot of it in the scene itself to light. Hard to say what he's doing for fill on this. shooting with flourescent does this greenish tint on film and thats where it came from. You don't really have to with digital to get the coloring but there is still something about it that works better for that cold light.

On your second image with madonna, its a bit harder to say on if it was fluorescents or not, as others have pointed out its hard to tell without the original. I didnt look it up but I am assuming Meisel shot the madonna ad as well and he's good at using the lighting he needs to get what he wants in the end ( saying he doesn't just stick to fluorescents to get his style so it could be or not be). If you like that fight club david fincher look though fluorescents is the way to start. Use a fogger to get the atmosphere in the restaurant.

You can tell her face has been touched up and the bag to draw attention to it but other than that I think the rest is just the color correcting, and as others have said thats all in the tweaking of curves, gradient maps, selective color, channels, these guys dont have a secret weapon really, they're just good at it and have a good eye.

These are great images, and Meisel is definitely a photographer to look to for inspiration.
Most of the "fashion" tutorials you find online are really bad and have a very loose definition of fashion. you can find a lot online about curves and color correcting and that does give a good place to start. With retouching, as people say on here, stay away from the ones that involve blurring large portions of the, its not the technique you'll want to go with if this is the type of imagery you want to make.

These are interesting images I found and meisel before and afters.
The first one appears to be without color correction and the second seem to be the way they would color it. again he uses a big fluorescent source in the shot itself.

without the greencast

with green cast

another without the green

another with green

and speaking of Madonna before and after retouching for Louis Vutton
this is pretty great
http://showstudio.com/forums/13974/42300

Welcome to photoshop, it may just ruin all your relationships.

[sid_v]

Take a look at this case study of these color tones including Meisel done not so while back.

Read here:
http://sidvasandani.blogspot.com/201...lm-effect.html

[pellepiano]

From the same series. Probably not a composite.

Try using Color Balance and add more cyan and green.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by pellepiano

From the same series. Probably not a composite.

Try using Color Balance and add more cyan and green.

I don't even agree on the first one being a full composite. I say she was sitting there, BG might have been added but I'm pretty sure the tables were there

[sid_v]

They definitely are composites....mainly for the models expressions and pose rather than the lighting. They are shot with one or two models at a time in the scene with the same lighting. Background was shot by assistants before Steven starts shooting the models.

Composites in stature of Photographers like Steven Meisel and Annie are purely to gain perfection in aesthetics and expressions, rather than to add a table or change backgrounds like say, Dave Hill does.

The process is very simple to shoot....here is a basic tutorial of such composite with just one subject....duplicated two or three times:
http://sidvasandani.blogspot.com/201...ng-models.html

In Stevens image, this technique is used in an elaborate set with different top class models.

For the color, there is def a soft flash used on the models from top, that has been balanced with fluorescent tubes to give the greenish cast and match it with the real ambient tube lights of the train. Photoshop for color is just used to fine tune and balance the tones and shadows.

[eraanexact]

There's a lot of ways to get that color cast. Meisel gets his retouching done at Box, and I know someone who worked there, and odds are that there's one main S curve that is adding contrast and overall pop, and then with that same curve adjustment layer, the colors are weighted toward the green/yellow/cyan side. There's probably several smaller adjustment layers for localized areas. Skin retouching done with a combo of cloning and dodge and burn. I doubt that it's any more complicated than that.

I've seen some of Meisel's raws, and he's just a great photographer who knows how to light and compose. At that point, retouching is just the cherry on top.

[r*po]

interesting article about the man behind Box, Pascal Dangin.

Pascal Dangin_New Yorker

Even with a studio like this behind you eraanexact makes a very good point. For good retouching it is really that little extra to take an image beyond, but at the base of it all these guys like Meisel, and Klein are really incredible photographers and know what they are doing. If you are just getting started it also pays to look at art history and how painters were able to use light and color.

the part about these forums I find interesting is of course we all want to put out images like Meisel and his contemporaries and it goes without saying they know what they are doing. The point of these forums is we all are trying to grow and get better. Altough most retouching is the same techniques and it takes a lot of practice even if you know the exact steps sometimes the best way on here to find out more about a style is to just say,"This is cool, how Do i do it?" Especially when your examples are from photographers in the top of their field working with clients and publications at these levels.

This thread people have been great about giving advice, i've just noticed in some of the others on here some people seem to get annoyed with the "how do I get this look" question because there are always so many variables. It is a forum though and you've got to ask and most of the time some really interesting links come up and good advice on steps to getting closer to asking the images users want to...but I digress. Good stuff.

[r*po]

Originally Posted by sid_v

Take a look at this case study of these color tones including Meisel done not so while back.

Read here:
http://sidvasandani.blogspot.com/201...lm-effect.html

its a good study but to say at the end "hire pascal if you want to get this look" isnt all that helpful. I can look at an image and see it has blue in the shadows, but still cant get the results I want even when I have similar lighting.
even on this guys site his grading examples aren't great but do show some techniques for those that haven't seen them before so thats nice at least.