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Beauty retouch psd

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  #91  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

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Originally Posted by Markzebra View Post
I've not seen that ShiftStudio site before - the source is very good in most of the images, the Photographers or at least RAW work is very sensitive to color, and doesn't need much 'help'.



Didn't mean that the numbers themselves were meaningless. Yes there are fields of retouching where correcting 'by the numbers', or at least being able to is essential of course - and being able to understand this (how this works completely differently in RGB versus CMYK for example) is an important leaning process. There are certain tasks where for example working with curves, channel mixing - the numbers are essential. Not having been through this purely technical training at some point would be a handicap to anyone.

What I said was that a "measured value at a given point is meaningless" - when it comes to whether things look right or wrong, without taking into account its surroundings this is true.

What I'm trying to say is that where anything aesthetic is concerned it all comes down to judgment. And on any single image, there are different judgments and preferences that can be made. No right or wrong.
I understand it, but ShadowLight started saying the Natalia's colors were to yellow, and I told him his colors were too magenta. He rejected it or something in some nice manner (I'm not meaning he rejected it, argued could be the word, in short, his reply was negative), so I showed him the numbers that say his image has too much magenta and this discussion started. There is nothing weird here, just drag the image to photoshop (or look at what I did) and you sill see he has quite a lot of magenta in certain areas and the whole picture looks too magenta and which is quite unreal, the bigger amount of magenta is in the shades/shadows. Sometimes, the shady part of a picture has too much magenta but that will depend on how the image was lit and the skin color of the subject, sometimes those shady areas looks more saturated and off (which is more often), like yellow (caucasian skin tone) turns into ocre or some kind of brown or dark orange. There is also another kind of thing that causes skin tone looking magenta, for example, in the extremities of our body such the arms, hands, legs and the last one... feeth? All these things are always corrected instead painting the whole body with magenta.

From my experience, I have never seen magenta skin tones in retouching, and I'm talking about thousand of images without mention the other thousand that comes through TV or magazines. It's clear the standard says the skin should look more like Natalia did (even if it looks a bit toasted for my taste, but it's quite the same to what can be found in mass media). Now, if ShadowLight, or any other artists want to apply other type of skin tone, it's okay, but I don't think his example is useful for comparisson next to the Natalia's work. Which is not clear for him is that for one hand we have the taste, and for the other we have the standards. Now, if our taste and the standards are equal, well... that falls into other topic.

here is the image with the numbers and the numbers says the image has too much magenta:

Last edited by Quantum3; 10-08-2009 at 02:23 PM.
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  #92  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:02 PM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

oh.. I see.. there's some pink left below the lower lash of the eye...

but maybe this is also a great example for exactly what you said it's not happening outside the "optical illusion"

at first glance (first second) I got the impression that the skin and the coat are somewhat greenish...

but turned out that it's mostly the background... a quick saturation -75% greens and looked much better (at least subjectively to me)
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  #93  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:31 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

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Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
oh.. I see.. there's some pink left below the lower lash of the eye...

but maybe this is also a great example for exactly what you said it's not happening outside the "optical illusion"

at first glance (first second) I got the impression that the skin and the coat are somewhat greenish...

but turned out that it's mostly the background... a quick saturation -75% greens and looked much better (at least subjectively to me)
I think I see where you say there is a bit of pink, but I don't know if that's the same place the guy from shiftstudio told me to fix it. That area is so thin and small that surpass me. The very thin line of the flicker (the line below the eye, where the eyelashes are inserted) is usually pink, otherwise I think it will look unreal, but at this point of detailed examination I have no idea what's right, haha.
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  #94  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:34 PM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

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Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
... Which is not clear for him is that for one hand we have the taste, and for the other we have the standards.:
oh... what will I do without "taste" nor "standards"

thanks for straightening me up skippy
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  #95  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:03 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

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Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
oh... what will I do without "taste" nor "standards"

thanks for straightening me up skippy
Sorry if I expressed myself in a wrong manner, English is my second languaje.

I wasn't meaning that you don't have taste, nor standards. It's a languaje expression, how to explain it... Meaning that there is taste for one hand and standards for the other hand. Taste and standards usually are not in the same page.
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  #96  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:14 PM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Newbie Re: Beauty retouch psd

English is my third language actually... but I learned to live with it
(too bad I forgot the first two :P )

how's the skin now?
(besides the higher contrast, just colour wise)
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  #97  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:18 PM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

Folks on the previous subject check this out - great illustration and talk on the subject…

http://www.ted.com/talks/beau_lotto_...ow_we_see.html
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  #98  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:16 PM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

thanks for the video, very illuminating

although all those are not some statistical logic conclusion as he mentioned but rather how the neural network had been trained to interpret conditions...
btw, "gestalt psychology" has also something along those lines, but there mostly things are concerned with form rather than colours...

I really liked the very first experiment... I think we have a proof that each of us don't see colours the same as the rest
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  #99  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:04 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Beauty retouch psd

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
English is my third language actually... but I learned to live with it
(too bad I forgot the first two :P )

how's the skin now?
(besides the higher contrast, just colour wise)
Well... I think what you did is damn correct. I certainly find it very realistic because not all skin is 1 color. What you did looks amazingly natural. The little magenta in the cheekbones adds a lot of realism now it's more balanced. I must say I feel happy that after the discussion you took the positive of it. I really like these skin tones and the naturality you achieved makes the image much more tangible and believable. In terms of subjectiveness and personal opinions, I like more this new version than the one made by Natalia (hope she don't get mad at me! haha).
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  #100  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:19 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Beauty retouch psd

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Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
thanks for the video, very illuminating
I think we have a proof that each of us don't see colours the same as the rest
Hope not to bother you with my insistency, but there is where numbers become handy.
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