Omg

[gamedonechanged]

I think people need to stop thinking just because there were issues with the first DVD (which was not at all related to Natalia) that this one will inherit those same issues.

Im sure Natalia herself has in the past come across discussion on that original DVD and taken some of that into consideration when producing this one. Those who purchased the series 1 would have also gotten a questionaire (did I spell that right? ah who cares) asking for feedback on the the first dvd.

The run time of this DVD is a lot longer than the first and she has even said so herself that it is a complete end to end retouch.

Skydog I will let you know how I get on. I'm such a loser I am thinking of taking a day off work to go through it all in 1 day haha. My only gripe is....I want it now!!!!!

:-)

[LindyM]

I don't see anyone pointing direct figures are her for the 1st CD issue.
but you can't blame people for thinking something since its coming form the "same" site.

[gamedonechanged]

That's understandable but I think some people are just coming across a bit rude.

eg: it better be better than the last one....

Not having a pop at anyone in particular but I have noticed that rhetoric on here and on MM. To be honest we are probably lucky that she even agreed to do it in the first place. I'm just venting now.

btw I also bought the series 1 dvd so I understand where you are coming from. But have a little trust peeps....

Im sure we wont be saying the same things this time.

[skydog]

Nothing against GM...just very cautious when it comes to spending my $$ especially in these financial times. In the past two years, I've purchased a number of DVD's, plug-ins and "backgrounds" only realize it was money wasted. When I find something good I definitely want to recommend to the members, but in turn if I find something of poor value I will also comment and clarify that it is my personal opinion. As I've mentioned before, retouching/photography is not inexpensive...the software upgrades, training, cameras, lenses, hardware add up. So I thank all of you who share your experience (pro/con) on any of your purchases.

GM...I wish you the best on your release and hope it is a huge success...to you and to those of us who purchase the product.

[seattle-light]

Let me start off by saying that I'm a fan of Natalia's work. And I'm sure I'll be getting one of her DVD sets and keeping it on my reference shelf.

Over the years, we've all wasted a ton of money on things (clothes, college, cars, fondue sets, ergonomic furniture, premium vodkas, food processors, computers, web servers, cameras, lights, flash units, computer courses, workshops, seminars, books, software, etc.) that didn't live up to their promises or were simply a waste of time. So we're all a bit reticent when it comes to parting with our hard earned cash. Me too.

But I always figure if I can learn one important thing from a book or a workshop that it's well worth my time and the related expense. That might make me sound like someone who has lowered the bar enough to be easily pleased. But that's just not the case.

I get a lot of materials that are aimed at professional photographers all the time, and I find myself rolling my eyes in disbelief at what they're trying to sell. And I'm well known for walking out of workshops that failed to live up to their billing -- where even if they had one thing to learn, it wasn't worth wading through the crap to get to it.

I didn't buy the first DVD series from Vitaly. It looked kind of lame. I watched his video online showing his shooting and retouching technique. I wasn't impressed enough with his explanation of what he was doing or with the final images to order the DVD set. Seemed like there was more fluff than substance, and I didn't want to listen to him go on for hours.

And if it were him doing this set, I'm sure I'd feel the same way feel the same way and simply pass.

But before you hold Natalia (one of our own and a known quantity here at RetouchPRO) responsible for the first DVD series he put out, I suggest that you take a look at her sample video online.

It's about 30 minutes long (and it's free -- you don't even have to give an e-mail address or anything to view it, so it's about as risk free as it can be). It only covers Camera Raw conversions (which I assume is the first 30 minutes of her 10 hour presentation). It's not a highlights reel. It's the beginning, and it's not even getting into the good retouching stuff. But I think you'll find it compelling.

I've been doing retouching on live advertising images for over 15 years, but there were at least ten things that she covered in the Camera Raw conversion (let's call those insights) that were news to me -- clarifying subtle but important distinctions between different ways adjusting the image. I don't know if any of those will profoundly change the way I work, but it definitely gave me a deeper understanding of the range of possibilities coming out of Camera Raw. And her presentation of information is clear, thoughtful and engaging. I found myself going back and reviewing several sections to make sure that I hadn't missed anything.

If Natalia holds up over 10 hours to deliver at that pace (and it was interesting in the Camera Raw conversion where Natalia wasn't even dealing with the retouching work -- a half hour on getting the files ready for retouching), that would mean that she would deliver around 100 insights. That would by far exceed my investment-to-insight requirement without going near the bore-me-to-tears factor that most training DVDs have. I have a short attention span for anything that begins to sound like a lecture.

I've seen what Natalia can do with an image, and I know that she's got a completely different approach from me, but I also know that I have much to learn from her.

I also know that when she pours herself into a project that her commitment to quality is absolute. That doesn't mean that she'll deliver perfection every time, but have you seen her work? If you haven't been following her work, you should start. She's going to be a rock star in our quiet little world of retouching.

I'm not telling you that you should buy her DVD set. I'm only suggesting that you watch the sample video online and evaluate it for yourself. If you think that after watching the sample video that that you wouldn't benefit from spending ten hours watching her work on a retouching project from start to finish while explaining what she's doing, then don't buy it.

If you buy it and don't like it, you can always tell her about it in this forum.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.

[Quantum3]

Worships for Alan! PEOPLE! You will never find happiness through objects! Stop being so fooled by illusions!!!!!!!

Coming back to topic, I have seen almost every DVD tutorial ever made and sincerely, they all are a waste of money. Same with PDF's, before tutorials becoming popular in CD/DVD. All the great stuff found in DVD's tutorials made all along the time, could be put in one single DVD. For example, there are tons of DVD explaining very advanced stuff, but when you get the DVD, more than half is about basic stuff. I'm talking about DVD's made by those guys from lynda.com not about DVD's like the one made by Natalia or Calvin, etc. In fact, I haven't seen any of those, but I would love to know what about those, since they seems to be worth.

What I have seen in the Natalia's demo looks pretty nice and we all know that she does amazing works. I would like to see a bit more than just the Camera RAW, it spends too much time in that for a demo and the product cannot be seen in a manner of convince people who doesn't know Natalia. Or even those who knows her, are not enough convinced by the demo.

The only thing I can complain about what I have seen in the demo is that doesn't shows enough to convince more people that the DVD is good and a bit the speeching, she seems to be tired when talking. Other than that, I think it will be really good. I will wait the opinions of buyers before buy.

[dweekley]

I have to add to what Seattle-Light said....I just want to mention that you should allow the sample video more than a few minutes run time before deciding to quit watching. I was tempted to quit watching shortly after it started playing but I am VERY glad I gave it more of my time. I felt it was much more than a regurgitation of what you can read on-line about camera raw's settings.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by seattle-light

I'm not telling you that you should buy her DVD set. I'm only suggesting that you watch the sample video online and evaluate it for yourself. If you think that after watching the sample video that that you wouldn't benefit from spending ten hours watching her work on a retouching project from start to finish while explaining what she's doing, then don't buy it.

If you buy it and don't like it, you can always tell her about it in this forum.

You wrote what I was thinking
Thank you for your words.

Quantum... you think I'm tired there coz I was trying to speak slowly and allow ppl to understand me... plus u've actually heard me and talked to me and u know how fast I really talk!


xx

[seattle-light]

Dear Quantum3...

Hey Mart! I'm in complete agreement with you that there's a whole lot of crap out there, with people pretending to be experts and not getting beyond the basics.

Most of the stuff out there is junk, but that doesn't mean that everything is.

What I think you'll find in Natalia's sample video is some useful information and insight that's presented in a way that's incredibly straightforward and accessible -- and some good practical advice as to when to use what (the difference between exposure and brightness, the difference between saturation and vibrance, the use of split toning, etc.).

You're right to want to see more than the Camera Raw. It's not the most interesting part of the process. But I have a feeling that she'd have to put the whole ten hours up before you'd be willing to say that it would be worth it, that if you had the money to spare that then you would think it was worth it except that since you had then already seen the whole thing why would you pay for it.

But you should be able to tell from the way Natalia's setting things up coming out of Camera Raw that she's going to go into some incredible detail about what she's doing over a ten-hour retouching project.

I'm not saying that everyone should buy her DVD set. I'm just saying that I think that almost anyone who is serious about retouching could learn something useful from it.

Watching a DVD set won't turn anyone a great retoucher (that's not how it works), but it could provide some valuable insights into one retoucher's working methods.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by dweekley

Congratulations Natalia. I just watched the sample and loved it. When does the presale end? I too would love to see a download option.

Download option available now ... seems he decided it was worth it
x

[Cuervo79]

Regarding to the opinions of the guys or gals that are not sure about the video...

Yes people who saw or bought Vitaly's retouch video or even seen his tutorials or examples would be weary about buying his stuff.

The difference here is that Vitaly isn't doing the video he's just like the publisher, and Natalia is doing all the stuff.

If people don't really know Natalia, go look at her work. and then decide if you would like to see 10 hours of her working on a file and explaining what she's doing from start to end.
I learned tons from a video someone posted here of a time lapse from start to finish, there where no real step by step explanations, just general information written in text while the video was running.
Now imagine this but at normal pace with the person explaining almost everything that is being done to the photo.

I would actually buy the dvd, too bad I'm out of $, and that the price is a bit steep for my taste...

[gamedonechanged]

Originally Posted by Godmother

Download option available now ... seems he decided it was worth it
x

Actually when taking into account the file size I think I will stick with the postal option.

I know what you are going to say haha after all my moaning. Sorry. :-)

x

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by gamedonechanged

Actually when taking into account the file size I think I will stick with the postal option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55ArHjeR1c

[mistermonday]

Well for some of us the download is still the preferred option particularly if the shipment needs to take place across a border (customs & brokerage delays, potential duty on physical goods, etc). Downloads usually go especially smoothly if the file is broken up into 3 or 4 separate files.
Regards, Murray

[gamedonechanged]

Originally Posted by Godmother

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55ArHjeR1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiGPQVUJqq0

hehe

[dweekley]

Thanks Natalia for the download option update. I've emailed him a couple questions about it. After seeing the file size I'm not sure if my connection here will be stable enough for my estimated download time......thinking.....

[rizkhanpsy]

Natalia are you only retouching the DVD cover in this series or there are more projects on different images.

[MariusX]

Just watched the teaser, love the accent :-). Do i hear mouse clicks in the background? If yes, is the whole training done with a mouse or just the "raw" stage?

[rizkhanpsy]

Come on ! release it before i run out of $$$.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by gamedonechanged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiGPQVUJqq0

hehe

Originally Posted by rizkhanpsy

Natalia are you only retouching the DVD cover in this series or there are more projects on different images.

3 images:

1- Beauty Retouching (DVD cover)
2- Extras image: to show off tips and tricks: Apply make up, textures, hanging eye color, white skintones, etc
3- Hair retouching-composite

Originally Posted by MariusX

Just watched the teaser, love the accent :-). Do i hear mouse clicks in the background? If yes, is the whole training done with a mouse or just the "raw" stage?

Everything is done with a mouse. Not everyone has a tablet.
There' no external plug-ins of filters or brushes or actions used either.

[Cyberek]

Originally Posted by Godmother

Everything is done with a mouse.

And that is part, that i can't understand. If one thinks seriously about retouching, having a tablet would be a first step.
I have watched HIGH-END INDUSTRY RETOUCHING TECHNIQUES VIDEO some time ago, and my first impression was - why in the hell is he using a mouse? Sadly all other things from that dvd is now available for free in tutorials available here and there.
Hopefully Natalias one will go further in topic - i mean it will be adressed to more advanced users.

[mistermonday]

Cyberek, for someone who learned and spent many years working without a tablet, I can tell you that having a tablet is not the 1st prerequisite to be a serious retoucher. The skills one gains learning how to walk before one can run, often make one all that much better skilled and appreciative after one can afford a tablet. A similar statement can be made regarding work that can be done in PS from its tool set without the need for 3rd party plugins, filters, and actions. The fact that Natalia has prepared a teaching of uncommon techniques and concepts using basic common denominators available to everyone says a lot about her skills, professionalism, and philosophy.
It would be enlightening to understand what your concept of "advanced user" is.
Regards, Murray

[seattle-light]

Dear Cyberek...

I do have a Wacom tablet on my desk, but the fact is that I rarely use it. There's nothing that's inherently better or more serious about using a tablet for retouching.

The mouse is a better tool for a number of operations. The stylus is better for freehand drawing and for operations where you need to use variable pressure sensitivity, but the mouse is superior for creating Bezier paths for selections and making pixel critical offset selections. For most everything else, it's a bit of a draw.

Then you also need to figure out which tool you can work with comfortably for long periods of time. I find the stylus gives me a cramp in my thumb from gripping it after working for with it for just a few hours and then there is a strain that comes from the micro-finger-movements needed to keep it supported properly and to make selections. But then I can go 14 hours straight with the mouse without any kind of discomfort (okay, maybe a bit of eyestrain, but I wouldn't really blame that on the mouse).

To say that a serious retoucher must use a tablet is to believe that the skill is in the tool. Believe me, it's not. If it helps you as a tool, by all means use it.

It's like saying that a serious writer must type without looking at the keyboard. I has nothing to do with the quality of the work.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.

[skauskas]

Originally Posted by mistermonday

.... I can tell you that having a tablet is not the 1st prerequisite to be a serious retoucher...

may be it's not but after first month of training my hand was falling off. Some people have even constant pain in their hands and wrists from using a mouse and have to contact a doctor. The pain stops only when you stop using a mouse.
So for me it's not about skills or retouch quality. It's just my health which we never should forget about especially with our "sitting in from of the computer all day" work.

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by Godmother

You wrote what I was thinking
Thank you for your words.

Quantum... you think I'm tired there coz I was trying to speak slowly and allow ppl to understand me... plus u've actually heard me and talked to me and u know how fast I really talk!


xx

HAha I know how fast you talk, Natalia, but you breath/suspire many times in the video or you make some effort in order to explain the stuff that can be listened in the way you express your self when talking in the video. Personally, watching a 10 hours DVD talked that way would stress me quite a lot. The voice of the narrator should be pleasent in order to catch the attention of the viewer for more than 2 hours and your voice exhausted me in 20 minutes. I have seen thousand of tutorials, and I guess you too, and for example, Kelby is very fast and dynamic, Decke is really wow when talking. I can see 8 hours straight of his videos. Steve Holmes is also very nice to listen or just remember Dr. Brown, haha but I have listened to others very boring narrators that at the end, even when doing a big effort to finish the tutorial it cannot be finished. It's like you know, when going to some conference nd the guy talks and talks about very interesting topic, but the way it talks about the topic is like boring. You are not boring, but there is a feeling of preocupation when you talk. Seems you want to be perfect in every aspect you say, something that I don't doubt, haha, but I can tell you're a bit nervous, thinking more than you talk. At least at the first part. It's normal, considering that we all feel and want to do lot of perfect things at the beginning and we try to not commit any mistake and the like, you know. I don't know how you would explain things in Spanish, but in English I can hear you're not confortable, like you putting lot of preassure in your speech and yourself, like I said before, It can be heard you're too obsessive with perfeccionism. It happened to me the same when I begun teaching but making a DVD is much more serious and you know that.

[Quantum3]

Yo Alan!

Of course man, but would be nice to see a bit more. I'm seriously thinking buying the DVD because the Natalia's work is great, not because the 30min demo. But you know, spending that amount of money, for my pocket is too much. I'm actually paying the MacPro, almost finished, it took me around 8 months so imagine...

Mart

[Quantum3]

Good thing about tablets since I was considering buying one in the future. I don't know if a tablet really makes things easier, as everybody says. I tryed one of a friend of mine, but in his house and his computer with his configuration so I don't know if it would feel confortable to me. And tablets are too expensive to try then trash.

[ApWizard]

Originally Posted by Quantum3

Good thing about tablets since I was considering buying one in the future. I don't know if a tablet really makes things easier, as everybody says. I tryed one of a friend of mine, but in his house and his computer with his configuration so I don't know if it would feel confortable to me. And tablets are too expensive to try then trash.

I know the feel
before buying one for me was the same.
Is really really handy, but you need a little to familiarize. With a real pen/pencil you have one kind of feeling, the one from this device is a bit strange the first time (at least for me was like that).
For dodge&burn for example is really powerful, you can stroke hundreds of times in a split second with a 1% opacity brush :°D

[markc78]

lol re. the comments on narration... in my opinion if the content is impressive I couldn't care less about the sound or entertainment of the narrator.... got Deke & Kelby for Ps 101 Comedy... great now to have someone of real retouching calibre putting one out....by the way you sounded great!

[MariusX]

Originally Posted by seattle-light

(...) But then I can go 14 hours straight with the mouse without any kind of discomfort

Wow!

I say "wow", cos my wrists give up after checking my email with the mouse.

To me the wrist problem was also the reason why i got a tablet. But in terms of retouching i didn't get that "why i didn't buy it before" experience, not yet anyways...