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simple retouch

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:38 PM
LindyM LindyM is offline
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simple retouch

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/mem...li-retouch.jpg

Last edited by LindyM; 12-18-2009 at 08:44 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2009, 02:19 PM
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mikedimples mikedimples is offline
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Re: simple retouch

The whole image looks slightly blurred. My poor eye was bouncing everywhere, desperately seeking something to focus on. Saturation is too even across the image for my taste, skin too orange, nasolabial fold and shadow on chin is distracting.

Nice job on the eyes.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2009, 06:41 PM
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Re: simple retouch

Beautiful women. Love her eyes/eyebrow.
The christmas present in the background on the
wall going through her head is distracting.

EDIT: OK, didn't know it was new york skyline.
The subject is hypnotic, non-the-less.

Last edited by aartist; 12-21-2009 at 05:58 AM.
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2009, 07:04 PM
LindyM LindyM is offline
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Re: simple retouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedimples View Post
The whole image looks slightly blurred. My poor eye was bouncing everywhere, desperately seeking something to focus on. Saturation is too even across the image for my taste, skin too orange, nasolabial fold and shadow on chin is distracting.

Nice job on the eyes.
image is out of focus and it is why its soft.
you should get a new monitor if you really think she is too orange. Especially since she is tan being in Florida and the skin color was not edited.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aartist View Post
Beautiful women. Love her eyes/eyebrow.
The christmas present in the background on the wall going through her head is distracting.
the "christmas present" is a picture of the New York skyline. Nice try at being funny though.
I could understand if it was in focus, but the image has a narrow DOF.

http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...t=IMG_2521.jpg

Last edited by LindyM; 12-19-2009 at 07:33 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2009, 11:12 PM
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Dave.Cox Dave.Cox is offline
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Re: simple retouch

Hi Lindy. It is a very nice photo, but the back ground is a bit distracting. The face is a bit over saturated in the red, giving the slight orange look. Check the color levels with your eyedropper tool, and you will see that there is a slight red cast. (By the way, I do use a fully calibrated monitor). Use the levels or the curves tool to bring the reds down just a bit, and you will see the nice Florida tan, but without so much of a red cast and it won't look so over saturated.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2009, 12:52 AM
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seattle-light seattle-light is offline
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Re: simple retouch

mikedimples...

Nasolabial folds. You're making me blush. Remember this is a family-friendly forum. Oops, forum makes me blush too.

Hope you're doing well. Take care. Alan.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2009, 03:24 AM
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0lBaldy 0lBaldy is offline
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Re: simple retouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindyM View Post
I guess you wanted a critique.. For a "simple retouch" I think it is just fine. And the warm tones (Florida Tan) on the pretty model seems smooth and nice overall except for the harsh shadows and bright highlights.

If you did not want a critique and you just wanted to show your project then please disregard the following, it is just some thoughts from an old man who wanted to show you his version of the pretty girls picture.

To complicate the retouch some you might lighten the harsh shadows and put some sparkle in the eyes and on the lips and mute the highlights some. The landscape crop is nice but somewhat distracting... so my personal preference would be a portrait crop and get rid of the distracting red areas..

Maybe something like this

Original~~~~~~~~Portrait
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Beauty_Orig.jpg (196.7 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg beauty.jpg (197.4 KB, 58 views)

Last edited by 0lBaldy; 12-20-2009 at 03:29 AM. Reason: added original picture
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2009, 04:39 PM
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seattle-light seattle-light is offline
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Re: simple retouch

Dear LindyM...

When you put up an image, you're in effect asking for comments. When several people say that it's too orange or too red, you shouldn't dismiss it casually with something like I didn't adjust the color (as it really doesn't address the issue).

I am certain that no one who has commented has done so to hear the sound of their own keystrokes or to read their own response. You should at least understand that they are sharing their ideas as to what might help make your retouching on that particular image (and in general) better. They have nothing to gain personally from sharing their thoughts about your image.

If you didn't adjust the color, that doesn't mean that the color is right or that it looks natural. It only means that you didn't adjust the color.

If the camera automatically got things right, there would be a whole lot less work for retouchers. The camera isn't a natural observer. It doesn't see things the way we do. It doesn't perceive what it is capturing, and it doesn't record information in the way our eyes and minds do.

The camera simply captures data, and what it captures is often substantially different from what a person in the room would perceive. Much (indeed most) of what we're doing in retouching is making up for the camera's limitations.

As a retoucher, color is one of those things that is under your control. If you had said that you loved the intense and unusual color of the image, I would at least respect that as a conscious and considered choice (even though I don't particularly care for it).

But to say that you didn't touch it so it must be right is to substitute the camera's judgement for your own. The camera doesn't have judgement. It is just a tool. As a retoucher, your judgement is the most important thing you've got working for you.

In my opinion (and take it for what it's worth), the image is too saturated and her face is too red/orange. The picture of New York behind her is distracting at a compositional level, but it also points out exactly how oversaturated she is (in that it has an effective neutral balance to it).

You might be able to rationalize her color away from her recent trip to Florida and the reflective color of the red room, but that's really not the look of a healthy tan. I am sure that in Florida you can have that precise color applied in a spray booth (so that people will know that you paid for your custom color tan). She looks like she's under a heat lamp -- and again I suppose that's fine if that's actually the look you're going for. But to me it's quirky color at best.

Meanwhile her face is illuminated, but there's no light getting to her neck and chest, and they're almost looking as if they've been painted to one color.

I'm sure this is just showing the limitations of the lighting setup in the shot, but are you really going to let the photographer's lighting problems make the final image suffer. Seems to me that it could be lightened up and then you could work on defining the highlights and shadows to fit in better with the rest of the image and create some detail that's been lost in the shadow.

As a retoucher, you can't blame things on the camera or on lighting problems. People are coming to you to make things work, to make up for the camera's deficiencies, to make up for lighting problems. Retouching is all about making things work.

To say "that's what I was given" seems like you're kind of passing the buck and looking for someone else to take the fall for the image's problems. It's the retoucher's job to make a silk purse out of the proverbial sow's ear.

Of course, I don't know what you started with (a before and after will actually get you far better commentary and suggestions) on this image, so it's hard to say whether or how much the image has been improved from the original (but it seems as if you've done reasonably good work as far as you've taken it).

But you've put it up here looking for comments and suggestions. You're asking people to kick the tires and examine it closely and to take their time to comment on what you've done and (maybe more importantly) what you haven't done.

I am not trying to beat you up here. I am actually trying to help you get more out of the process. If you don't want feedback, then don't post images (because it's a forum for discussion and learning).

But if you put things up for comment, you should at least try to take people's comments somewhat seriously and in the spirit that they were offered. You should be thankful that people take their time to comment on your work.

Even if you don't like or disagree with what someone has written, try to understand what it is that they're seeing and why they might suggest something that seems so strange to you.

Being open to criticism doesn't mean that your retouching sucks (it doesn't, and people wouldn't waste their time commenting if it was terrible), it means that you're open to listening, learning and improving.

I think it's too red... What? maybe you should get a new monitor...

I can't see anything positive coming out of that kind of response. It's basically saying that you think mikedimples comments are both mistaken or without value. Two people can look at the same image and have entirely different ideas of how it should look (and it doesn't mean that either of them is right or wrong).

Just because you see it differently doesn't mean you can't learn from that other perspective. Maybe even try it (if only to reinforce your own idea about how right you were to begin with). Maybe you'll find a different approach that will yield different, but equally pleasing results. Maybe it will open a new way of thinking or maybe you will learn to appreciate where other people are coming from and how they approach work on images.

Even when you disagree with what people say, you might want to look into it and see what they're driving at. At the very least you can appreciate their input (even if you didn't find it particularly helpful).

If you don't value other people's ideas and input then you probably shouldn't ask for it. Just do your own thing and be happy with yourself.

But if you ask for feedback and don't fully agree with what people say, you can you can still appreciate the feedback. You can respectfully disagree or explain your approach, but you shouldn't kick them for trying to help.

And I think you cross a line when you question the validity of mikedimples observations and the quality of his monitor.

You might think his color judgement is a subjective call (and in retouching almost everything is somewhat subjective) or even wrong. You might even think your image looks great the way it is.

But there's no reason to be rude toward someone who is trying to help you. And I probably wouldn't say any of this (as you're not the rudest person around) and just let it slide, except that you put yourself out there as such an expert on other people's lack of manners. And as such it cuts both ways.

If you want people to fawn over your images, then send them to your family or get some paid "friends" to say nice things.

But if you're going to post them here, you should expect some honest feedback. And you should be grateful for their honest feedback, because if they just said that's great work it wouldn't be very helpful to anyone.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2009, 06:06 PM
LindyM LindyM is offline
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Re: simple retouch

I am well aware that posting an image will gather comments, and I welcome them with open arms. However what I don't like is those that take if a bit further and dress up their comments with smug tones and sarcasm.

0lBaldy, you really think you made the image better ? it looks like really bad HDR.
and you smeared the lip/chin.

seattle-light, thanks for the speech
I appreciate your honest and BS-Free input.

Last edited by LindyM; 12-20-2009 at 06:29 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2009, 06:10 PM
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aartist aartist is offline
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Re: simple retouch

I changed the background color and reduced
saturation by 10%. My monitor is not calibrated
with a Spyder device, only my eyeball.

The red walls may be casting "reds" to the face or
our eyes are perceiving more reds in the face due to
the background wall color. Not sure if all the walls
are red in the room, but they may be causing some
of the actual or perceived problem. Just an idea.

I once changed an orange sweatshirt to gray for
a customer's photo and the face had picked up a lot
of orange from the sweatshirt. Also, the face seemed
to be over saturated and had to have orange removed
from it to make it look right. Some cameras will shoot
slightly over-saturated by default in automatic mode.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg user77952_pic1796_1261190594.jpg (81.0 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg user77952_pic1796_12611905942.jpg (86.1 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg user77952_pic1796_12611905945.jpg (93.6 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by aartist; 12-21-2009 at 02:28 PM.
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