Mastering Retouching DVD by Nick Saglimbeni.

[Nick Saglimbeni]

Originally Posted by secretagents

I think it's the price tag of the thing rather than the newbiness that generates a certain amount of hostility.

I definitely do get that sense, and I'm comfortable with that assessment. I am always grateful for potential customer feedback, and please do keep in mind that I am releasing proprietary secrets in this series that I have personally created and/or customized over the years to aid me in my magazine career.

Once the series has been out for a year or two, it is certainly possible that the price could come down. I also recognize that the recession has put added pressure on many artists' finances. I am not forcing anyone to buy this series, nor am I misleading them into doing so on their own. Again—I believe the price is fair for what you will learn. I still choose not to undersell my personal techniques. I'm sure my fellow artists will understand this. Just as I can't convince ProFoto or Hasselbad to give me free equipment, I have to pay to create the quality of photography that best suits what I want to acheive in my art and my career. Every artist should do the same, even if that means not buying this. My last "real" job was making color-copies at Kinko's and I believe the tools I am now teaching helped me quit the rat-race and build a successful career. No one has to agree with me, I'm just trying to share what I know with those who are seeking it.

Furthermore, I also find it amusing that so many members are contacting me via PM and e-mail (as opposed to posting publicly) asking about the series, because I think they're afraid to go against the collective grain that has pre-judged my series. While I do share Matt's view that this thread, at the very least, is unusually hostile, I cannot expect to be treated with kid-gloves in a commercial market, especially when there is so much free content available. I have nothing to hide, and I have offered many methods to contact me if you are interested or have questions about the product, including its price tag.

So that I can be clear, while everyone is deconstructing the "smoke and mirrors" that may or may not be in the series, I will again state that the reason I created Mastering Retouching was, first, to educate photographers on how to make anyone look amazing, so as to both protect and grow their commercial business (for example, at Slickforce we charge between $50-200/photo for retouching...even at $25/each, you would make your money back after only 20 shots...so I don't think the product is actually overpriced, I just think many are used a market where everything is free. I believe in paying for things that advance me to another level—you don't have to).

I also want to clarify that while I have used glamour to illustrate my teaching, the methods learned on this series are simply applicable to any style of photography. I think my target audience will see in the tutorials that I don't hate on any style, though many in here have already associated my own photography, which does not contain nudity or sex and actually appears on PG-rated newsstands every month, with porn. That's just tacky—a pro should know better.

Lastly, as I've said before, I created this series to speak to a new, more diverse audience that is often underrepresented in the entertainment and photography industries. You have every right to disagree that this even exists, but those who I am reaching know exactly what I am talking about. This is for you.

On the other hand, if you don't believe in paying for quality tools, if you think images of models in swimsuits to show the retouching of specific skin flaws is actually porn, or if you think everything that one can learn about retouching is already available for free or for less than Mastering Retouching, then I implore you, PLEASE DO NOT BUY MY SERIES. Otherwise, you know how to reach me.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Nick Saglimbeni

While I do share Matt's view that this thread, at the very least, is unusually hostile

Is not unusual.
It's against the rules to use the forums as advertising.
Matt had never used the forums before and he came in, for the first time, in "infomercial mode" some ppl might take that as "not cool"
I understand you came trying to "clear the air" afterward and I see that u needed to step in because ppl where trashing your hard work and that's never fair.

Originally Posted by Nick Saglimbeni

I also want to clarify that while I have used glamour to illustrate my teaching, the methods learned on this series are simply applicable to any style of photography. I think my target audience will see in the tutorials that I don't hate on any style

I was not trying to insult you or your work. Trully hope it didn't come out that way. English is not my native language and some times I come off s a bitch
Glamour does not equal porn in my eyes, I just dislike it. something personal.

Originally Posted by Nick Saglimbeni

On the other hand, if you don't believe in paying for quality tools, if you think images of models in swimsuits to show the retouching of specific skin flaws is actually porn, or if you think everything that one can learn about retouching is already available for free or for less than Mastering Retouching, then I implore you, PLEASE DO NOT BUY MY SERIES. Otherwise, you know how to reach me.

We couldn't agree more. I don't see the point in bashing the product. Ask about it... give your opinion in a neutral matter but if you don't like it, just don't buy it.

[Cuervo79]

The hostility is to the the price I agree not really the "newbieness".
As I have mentioned before, I hate when people present stuff as "top secret" or "stuff nobody will teach you" when in the end it comes down that it isn't true.
I'm a bit acid about this because I have seen it many times specially in stuff like DVDs.
You guys compare yourselves time and time again with quality lenses, and quality camera equipment, and its the same with new equipment coming out. For example canon seems to think that its great to make beta testers out of the first buyers of their equipment. Some people (like me) don't go all giddy anymore when new stuff comes out.

To the comment that Matt made about buying good lenses, I will buy good lenses but I won't go and buy a new version just because it's supposed to be better. Specially if there isn't enough time and reviews to give me a broader view.

"The just pay for the sinners" as the saying in spanish goes. Its not Nick's fault that many people have been burned by retouch dvds but you will be judged by those experiences, as you can read from the many guys being cautious

[secretagents]

Originally Posted by Nick Saglimbeni

I definitely do get that sense, and I'm comfortable with that assessment. I am always grateful for potential customer feedback, and please do keep in mind that I am releasing proprietary secrets in this series that I have personally created and/or customized over the years to aid me in my magazine career.

Well for a start I am not a potential customer. I just happened to read this thread and simply gave my opinion about what went on in it and why.

I will again state that the reason I created Mastering Retouching was, first, to educate photographers on how to make anyone look amazing, so as to both protect and grow their commercial business.

Well I am believing you are actually quite dishonest here and you are doing it primarily for earning more money than you currently make doing your magazines covers. At the price it is, if you sell just 2000, which isn't too far fetched IMO considering the size of the market which is worldwide, you are going to net $1 million.

I think my target audience will see in the tutorials that I don't hate on any style, though many in here have already associated my own photography, which does not contain nudity or sex and actually appears on PG-rated newsstands every month, with porn.

I must say that I also got the same first impression when going on your website that it was a porn site. Something about the layout, dunno, something. Now as far as the lads magazines you work for and you mention go, I am believing their sole "raison d'etre" is the selling of sexual fantasy so that the frontier between them and porn is so thin that it is IMO non-existant even if there is no actual porn or even nudity in them.

Lastly, as I've said before, I created this series to speak to a new, more diverse audience that is often underrepresented in the entertainment and photography industries. You have every right to disagree that this even exists, but those who I am reaching know exactly what I am talking about. This is for you.

No again I don't think this is for me. I wouldn't even buy it for $100 tbh considering that what is displayed in your proof page (http://www.masteringretouching.com/proof1.php) is not difficult to achieve at all for the most IMO. Three of the example are very easy and the fourth one is of only medium difficulty.

My last "real" job was making color-copies at Kinko's and I believe the tools I am now teaching helped me quit the rat-race and build a successful career. No one has to agree with me, I'm just trying to share what I know with those who are seeking it.

What you are selling here in fact is a merely is a $500 "dream" I understand, the dream that those $500 are going to offer a path to leave the "rat race" and enter a world of glamour etc...

Sorry if I come accross as harsh but as you quoted my little post to write all that I took it all personally

[gamedonechanged]

At the end of the day if the series is not what it is being made out to be then word will spread around after a while.

[markc78]

imo there are no magic solutions in retouching & the purchase of any dvd even the good ones will not instantly make you a good retoucher .... this only comes after hours & hours ...of practice ...& then some ... which probably isn't what people want to hear
sure you can pick up a few tricks for this & that (all of which can be found here on RP) but it will take years before you can confidently take an image from start to finish with full knowledge of what you are doing & alot of which you gotta piece together yourself...
so anyone going to teach retouching really should emphasise the need for practicex3 as much as anything else... as opposed to selling secrets of success

[gamedonechanged]

That goes without saying Mark. But sometimes there are new techniques that come into play that we were not aware of before. Eg take a look at the high pass sucks thread over on MM and that has since turned into a technique prior to D&B itself. So there maybe something in Nicks DVD that will also enlighten people in a similar fashion.

All im saying is I like the before and afters on his website. Maybe I am just being naive who knows but I think I will take a risk on it anyway.

[Nick Saglimbeni]

Originally Posted by Godmother

I was not trying to insult you or your work. Trully hope it didn't come out that way. English is not my native language and some times I come off s a bitch
Glamour does not equal porn in my eyes, I just dislike it. something personal.

I appreciate the thoughts, Natalia, and I understand your point of view. I sincerely do wish you all the best in your own DVD series (I think we both know just how well you are going to do, so congratulations).

For those of you who happen to dislike glamour because you feel it may be exploitational, please do just a bit of research on my company, and you will see that not only does SlickforceStudio pride itself on being the most professional (perv-free) glam studio in the country, but we also actively donate portions of all of our services, including Mastering Retouching, to two major sexual-abuse charities: RAINN and RedlightChildren.

Originally Posted by secretagents

Sorry if I come accross as harsh but as you quoted my little post to write all that I took it all personally

(I only meant it to cover my first point, where I agreed with you. Sorry if it seemed like my whole novel was a response...not intentional! )

Originally Posted by Godmother

It's against the rules to use the forums as advertising.

Understood. Please note that before Matt or I even came in here, the thread was in fact started by a regular member, not by anyone in my camp—I simply felt the need to respond and clarify. However, I respect the rules of the forum that you have all worked hard to build. This will be my last post in this thread, as it is impossible for my comments to be unbiased.

I do, once again, thank all of you for listening. You have given me much help in revising, marketing, and publicizing this product. I wish you the happiest of holidays, a very prosperous 2010, and the best in your respective careers. May all your dreams come true.

[gamedonechanged]

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions on here. Have sent you a message over on slickforce.

Cheers

[Calvinhollywood]

Hi Nick
Do you answer the messages what you get ?

lg Calvin

[skydog]

Please go to the website and read the product he is proposing. Six lessons for approximately 6 hours. The lessons will not be ready until Jan2010 for downloading. DVD not ready until March (they hope). Hard copy of the DVD for free (wow what a deal) if you order now in advance at the discounted $500 price...definitely don't wait until the price goes back to $700. Fortunately, the first lesson covers all the basic photo shop needs you will need to apply the "system". The last lesson ...most important ...are the secrets...well worth the investment to stay one step ahead of the competition. Go for it gamedonechanged and let us know what you think.

[gamedonechanged]

Sorry were you being sarcastic?

I'll let you know how it works out. :-)

[skydog]

If you know nothing about retouching and money/value is not a concern...no.

[gamedonechanged]

Meaowwwww

In any case I don't think there is anything wrong with trying something new out. Unfortunatley with a lot of these things it's hard to gaugue the facts first as no one here has tried it and there doens't seem to be a thread on MM. Also couple that with the fact that Doug refused to take a copy to try out that pretty much doesn't leave me with any choice other than to just wait it out until someone does take the plunge either here or on MM.

Not trying to have a pop at you Doug but a lot of us were keen to see what the DVD was like so it's unfortunate that you declined Nicks offer of getting a pre release copy.

Anyway I will be ordering it soon so will let you know how I get on.

[Cuervo79]

Gamedonechanged, I don't think most here are saying there's anything wrong with trying something new out.
The thing is that by the little information that there is in the web page, the super simple video example, and what is being provided in the thread, most people smell something funny. I specially do when the producer of the DVD uses marketing language that you know its intended for the newbies, and the none responsiveness to some of the points I have written about.
If you feel the techniques are worth the $500 go for it. At the moment I feel it isn't worth the money.

[wcbert]

Originally Posted by Nick Saglimbeni

I'm actually speaking with Doug Nelson to arrange both an advance copy and also a possible session on RetouchPro LIVE.

I think a RetouchPro Live session will help in a big way to determine the quality of the DVD series. I will admit I thought the $500 cost of the DVD is expensive, but when you top of your profession then it seems reasonable.

Bill

[gamedonechanged]

Are you thinking Nick will do a start to finish retouch so that people can bypass buying the DVD to just see his workflow for $10? lol Nice try but I doubt it.

[skydog]

I looked again at the tutorial presented on the site showing "how to easily change the color of a bra". It appears that there is a mask of the bra prior using the lasso tool that selected the bra prior to changing the hues. Nothing about the mask was mentioned, so a novice seeing this tutorial would get the impression that what is show is all that is required. I see nothing on the tutorials mentioning lessons on masks. Am I seeing this correctly?

[gamedonechanged]

Yes you are right I don't see any mentions of masks either. I think everyone here has scared Nick off and he also said he wouldn't be posting any more here so if you have a question you should try asking on slickforce. I asked Nick some very detailed questions there and he was happy to answer them. I'd reccomend you trying the same thing.

[skydog]

So what detailed answers did you get?

[gamedonechanged]

I'm not going to go through all that here. And if I did I don't think it would really sway peoples minds here. The point is head over there to his forum and ask him for yourself. Cant hurt...

Happy new year you miserable bunch!

[Hogfather]

Hey all y'all! This is my first post here although I've lurked around here for quite a while. In my quest for retouching knowledge, I have found very useful several of the tutorials on this site. There are some excellent nuggets here.

Disclosure: I was one of the beta testers for Mastering Retouching by Nick. Maybe my experience is helpful, maybe not. Most, if not all, people with the insight to be game changers were hounded by piles of naysayers....especially at the launch phase.

Last year, I personally flew to LA and paid a handsome fee for a one-on-one retouch session with Nick at Slickforce. When I say handsome, I mean WAY more than the price of the DVD set. Here's why I made that decision: Nick's actual retouching and photo work BLOWS AWAY every retouching book author I have read (I have at least 16 inches of retouching advice on my bookshelf...but compare the quality of published authors' actual results with Nick's—the proof is in the puddin'). His studio is the real deal—magazine covers like crazy, awesome studio and post-workflow. Talk is cheap, go look at the retouch worked photos on his slickforce site. Re-dunkulous.

His stuff doesn't cure cancer, but you can blow your models and clients away in a much shorter time than you'd expect. We did. Most of the Retouching tomes I have are a "mile wide and an inch deep." Nick's stuff is limited to making women look incredible, but very realistically. It's valuable to me because of its focus...because of what he does NOT cover. With all the junk on the internet, it's pretty easy to see that you can spend years separating the wheat from the chaff. Most aspiring retouchers won't buy Mastering Retouching, at least not during the first year...which in a sick kind of way makes me happy...because if everyone with a copy of Photoshop could blow away clients, the scarcity of the skill dies.

In my experience, a nickel and dime attitude usually yields nickel and dime results (and a nickel and dime lifestyle). I was mocked for years about using Apple..."hey, I can build a computer for half the price by scrounging around garage sales for the parts." Yeah, but in the end, you how much of your life have you wasted in dingy garages, while I enjoy my beautiful and elegant machine that doesn't crash and is a joy to just look at? Ah yes, after a while, lots of others eventually jump on the bandwagon after it's "safe."

That is how I feel about Nick's knowledge with retouching. Beautiful, inspiring results. Fun to watch, engaging...not yawn inducing (like pretty much everything else I've seen).
Sure, caveat emptor, but for me, the risk was abso-freakin'-lutely worth it. I had so many "A HA!" moments while watching the beta videos...even after I had the whole day workshop with him last year. Three or four of those eureka moments justified my ROI. After all...no risk, no payoff right?

[zganie]

First of all! (HOGFATHER) Who are you? How do we Know your just not one of Nicks Friends,(WHICH IS WHAT I AM THINKING).You Have ONE Post and its a SALES PITCH.
In All Fairness you can sell your product for what ever you want.
DONT EVEN GO DOWN PC VERSUS MAC ITS IDIOTIC
NICKEL AND DIME ATTITUDE,I WOULD NOT SAY,Katrin Eismann or Chris Tarentino to name a few ARE NICKEL AND DIME
Nicks Work is nice,Better than I could do BUT! I HAVE SEEN A LOT BETTER
NOW DOWN TO THE WHEAT AND SHAFT:TRUTH BE KNOWN ITS HARD WORK THERE IS NO MAGIC DVD OR PLUGIN OR FORMULA
people that are good its because they put in the time honing there craft NOT that tips and tutorials dont help they most certainly do
FINALLY In My Opinion YOU GUYS KNOW THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST PLACE TO FLOG YOUR GOODS

[gamedonechanged]

There is no need to shout zganie. You only make yourself look like a tit by doing that. At the end of the day if you are not interested then don't buy it but there is no need to slate it before you have even seen it yourself. I don't see people shouting towards Calvin Hollywood or anyone else.

Also I think Nick already said it wasn't a plugin.

Grow up will you.

[Cuervo79]

LOL, All I read was marketing marketing marketing. There is nothing there that can be said that is an actual comparative information to make me think the DVD is actually worth the money.
The mac and nickle and dime examples have nothing to do with this, nobody really talks about the techniques at all everyone just says "it will blow you away" give me a break when all the "beta testers" and the actual producer of the DVD only talk marketing in their responses and don't publicly answer some direct questions, it makes the DVD look even more fishy.
Stop with the marketing talk and actually talk about the techniques, is it similar to the degrunge technique? Is it better? Some of what it's explained in the last topic of the DVD is simple retouching which I learned from the beginning.
I know when doing something like this its to make money, but be careful when discerning what the actual market is, is this for newbies? is this for advanced? Also be informed that depending on the type of photography different retouches are necessary, Glamour or T&A type photography has one type of retouch on the skin, Beauty photography or fashion photography has another. Sometimes you mix techniques with each but there is rarely a one does all technique, even Dodge & Burn has its drawbacks, and that's the base for most beauty and fashion retouching.

[gamedonechanged]

I don't think they are going to talk techniques. If he did that why would anyone want to buy it?

I will give feedback once I get my copy. I opted for the download version too so should be able to get it on the day it is released. Until then please do yourselves a favour and pipe down, the constant snapping is getting tiresome. Anyway it's clear you are not even interested in this so why do you continue to post in here?

[Cuervo79]

Originally Posted by gamedonechanged

I don't think they are going to talk techniques. If he did that why would anyone want to buy it?

I will give feedback once I get my copy. I opted for the download version too so should be able to get it on the day it is released. Until then please do yourselves a favour and pipe down, the constant snapping is getting tiresome. Anyway it's clear you are not even interested in this so why do you continue to post in here?

LOL because I can.
Besides if you can't talk about the techniques then its actually all a gimmick, I'm not saying detail me how to do it but at least answer technical stuff enough to prove you're not relying on the marketing of "hey quick and easy professional results", when your last chapter "supposedly the most important one" details basic stuff most of us learn at the start of our "career".

The other thing is that I don't like when people use just marketing to sell their product and not answer directly publicly when people ask questions. Seems you're decided in buying the DVD so why do you gripe about my posts? Does it bother you that I'm against it? If so why?

[gamedonechanged]

Because it's not bringing anything constructive to the discussion. Anyway like I said I will give my feedback as and when I get a chance to try it out. Unltil then your opinions don't really mean anything anyway as you haven't seen the content yet either.

[Cuervo79]

lol whatever... you'll tell me if I'm right or not anyway so I don't mind...

[gamedonechanged]

Exactly... you may be right but at least wait till I have given my feedback. Then you can make your judgments based on facts rather than assumptions. Until then try to be a bit polite to Nick. You never know you may end up buying this and end up looking stupid after all this ranting.