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Skin texture?

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  #31  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:44 PM
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Cuervo79 Cuervo79 is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

Yup that's what I saw. Do you have MSN I would love to have more detail about this, because I didn't see the benefit to do it that way than to just go..

Make the layer via apply image so that would be your highpass layer (delete the layer you blured) later blur the resulting "highpass" layer 1/3 of the value you used for the apply image technique, invert and then put the blending option to linear light. Mask and paint where you need it. I later have this in different values from 15 to 3 in order to target different parts of the skin, the lower the value means you'll be softening the finer details. so If you over do it it looks kind of mushy
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2010, 03:58 PM
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Re: Skin texture?

i sent u a pm
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:42 PM
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gene_spark gene_spark is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

Thanks Flex
it is a nice Trick, it semms to me that removing the Texture is easier and a little faster.
I have played around and instead of using the whole Picture I used Calculations only with the red Channel...to decrease the texture...

lg.
gene

Last edited by gene_spark; 01-14-2010 at 06:48 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:30 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

Hi Cuervo. I thought I would clarify and clear up a confusion that most people have regarding the Degrunge technique. The GB value is NOT always 1/3 of the HP radius. Statistically 1/3 can be used as a rule of thumb if you are not willing to take the extra 10 seconds to do it correctly as every image will be different. The correct way to calculate the Degrunge values are a follows:
- First do a Blur > GB and adjust the radius until the "grunge" just disappears - you do not want to over-blur. Record this radius value but do NOT apply the filter yet.
- Next using the same original layer Filter > Other > High Pass. Start at 0 and slowly drag the radius value up until the right amount of detail is visible BUT before the grunge appears and well before the halos appear. Do NOT apply this filter yet either but record the radius value, For some images the value might be close to 1/3 of what you determined the GB should be but for some images it will be way way off. Each image will be unique.
So what you have established is a threshold where the detail is good and does not contain grunge and a threshold above which there is also no grunge. The stuff in between these two radius values contains all the grunge and that is what you want to blur.
The method to do this is to duplicate your background layer, apply a High Pass Filter using the Radius you calculated for the Gaussian Blur. Then apply a GB using the radius you calculated for the HP. Then you invert that layer and change the blend mode to Linear Light AND reduce the opacity to 50%. That blurred mess you see will be the Defrunge layer to which you need to apply a Hide All" layer mask and paint with white brush at about 10% opacity. While all this sound strange it is all based in math.
If you take an image and do a GB and HP at the same radius, HP+GB = the exact same image. To get the Degrunge layer you are doing Original Image + (HP-GB) = Degrunge.
The background is your original image and your top layer is (HP-GB). Photoshop does not have an ADD blend mode (except in Apply Image and Calculations) but does have an equivalent which is Linear Light at 50% opacity.

The traditional way to execute the HP was (and still is) Filter>Other>High Pass. However, there are some quirks in the way PS processes some math and so HP is not always very accurate, although you probably won't detect the difference visually. None the less, you can replace the HP Filter with the Frequency Separation technique published by Sean Baker at MM. So now you need to twist your brain a little more if you use this method. To do so you still should use the method above to assess the correct values to use for GB and HP. Then remember to swap then (HP at the GB value and GB at the HP value). So the process now is
- Bkgd, copy 1, copy 2
- GB on copy 1 at the GB value.
- Apply image on copy 2
- Discard the Low frequency GB layer. Change the blend mode to Linear Light. Do not change the opacity to 50% because that was already done by using Scale = 2 in Apply Image. SO what you now have is a HP layer at the GB radius (and its already divided by 2).
-Now all you need to do is apply a GB at the HP radius to that layer
This is your Degrunge layer.

The degrunge process has a purpose which is different from Frequency Separation.
The real point I wanted to make was that the rule of GB = 1/3 HP is not the best radius most of the time. I hope this helps you Degrunging.

Regards, Murray
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:11 PM
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Cuervo79 Cuervo79 is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

Murray, thank you for taking the time to give more detail for it. In your opinion you should only use 1 degrunge layer? I normally do about 5 (of course this is on the 1/3 the HP value) from 15 to 3. As what you have explained you don't need more than 1 then?
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  #36  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:46 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

C79, I have never needed more than one. Some people use the Degrunge layer to blur the heck out of wrinkles and blemishes or to get rid of pores - not me. I usually rserve the degrunge layer to soften transitions between light and dark areas of skin where the transitions are to harsh or contrasted. Subtle use of the technique does not produce noticeable blurring. Will selective get rid of some grunge as appropriate but most of the rest of the grunge and pores I do the hard way - pixel by pixel D&B, heal, patch, clone, etc.
Regards, Murray
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:09 PM
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Cuervo79 Cuervo79 is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

lol I'm guilty of using degrunge to blur the heck out of stuff. Although I went to work on an action where I make it "variable" (like you describe to review the values in order to adhere to the image I'm working instead of using a standard value) so I can add one when I need one.

So do you use the degrunge after or before D&B?
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:45 PM
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Re: Skin texture?

I initial clean up of all the blemishes I use the Degrunge layer to even out the tone transitions (make-up to cheek, shadows around mouth, nose, chin, etc). This establishes a "base camp" on which I will D&B. Depending on who much the D&B process introduces new tonal variations, I may apply another degrunge after D&B, and then I go through the process of selecting new radii as which may be different from the initial degrunge layer. I usually save a final D&B for contouring to the end.

I probably should have added a note in the previous post regarding multiple degrunge layers. Occassionally you will get an image with patches of grunge that are very far apart in frequency. Under those circumstances it may be better to have two narrow range degrunge layers instead of a single very broad one. But I think these images are more rare. Usually when you get one of these they are often not of the quality that you would consider worth doing a beauty retouch and you usually end up rejecting them or treating them with a different retouch startegy.
Regards, Murray
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  #39  
Old 02-09-2010, 08:58 PM
sakurama sakurama is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

Murray, thanks for taking the time to explain this. Skin is new to me and this has been enormously helpful. I've tried many different techniques but your explanation of the best way to apply the "degrunge" is the most helpful and successful. I'm currently working on a job with a hand model that has wrinkles accentuated by lighting for the product and not the skin so this is helping.

If you have any other suggestions please point me in the right direction.

G
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  #40  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:40 AM
SeagramPearce SeagramPearce is offline
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Re: Skin texture?

Is it possible for someone to make a visual tutorial on this?
I'm normally pretty with it when it comes to PS, but this just went right over my head... Maybe I'm just too damn tired.

But based on that sample image, with the nose, the results are phenomenal! I have to try this, but damn, trying to work it out from whats been said here just confuses me royally. :P
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