The right way to "fashion desaturate"

[Peer K]

Hello!

Well, the topic says most of it.. How to do a good-looking desaturation - without getting the greyish feel that a quick and dirty hue/saturation adjustment layer gets?

[mistermonday]

There are more than a dozen ways to desaturate an image in PS. One very effective tool for what you are trying to accopmlish would be the Black & White Adjustment in PS CS3 and later.
Regards, Murray

[gene_spark]

As mistermonday there are tons of Method, if you want to change Luninosity, oder Kontrast, than RGB is the Colormode you want...if you want to change color Lab hast often more to offer....
lg.
Gene

[slash-5]

Duplicate layer, desaturate, change blending mode to multiply. Just one way.

[hri]

I like to desaturate and then afterwards add some contrasts by playing with curves.

[flexmanta]

Using a desaturation adjustment for a full color image b&w conversion is probably the worst approach, as it doesn't give you the chance of adjusting the luminosity value that each hue will adopt after conversion. Desaturation should only be used when dealing with one single hue per adjustment.

Still, i don't think this is what the poster meant by fashion desaturate. I think that more than desaturation, he means the skin whitening used in fashion. This can be dealt with in various ways, but a really quick one is turning the red channel into a selection (ctrl click the red channel) and filling it with white on a new layer set to normal. Adjust opacity to taste. No grayness, no deadness... Depending on how far you take it you can go from redhead whiteish skin to even the distinctive geisha white makeup.

If you need step by step instructions, let us know.

[DorkieDoode]

^i would like step by step instructions if you would please.

[BuddhaBIO]

Yeah, instructions please... Is an interesting trick

[flexmanta]

Ok, but know that this will not magically make your photo look good. Retouching takes time and there is no one step fix. This is one of many steps used to make everything look white and less saturated without letting it all look gray. For architectural photography especially, there are many other things that have to be done, and sometimes it will not be the red channel that will provide you with the best selection. You can try this mainly on portraits, as the red channel should be the one that will reveal more of the skin. You can also experiment with other colors and blending modes, and inverting your selection.

Steps for quick whitening an image:
-Create a blank layer where you will be adding white later.
-Open the channels palette.
-Ctrl-click the red channel to load it as a selection (ctrl-alt-3).
-Back to the layers palette and still having the selection, fill the selection with white on the layer created on step one.
-ctrl-d to deselect.
-Adjust opacity of the new layer and consider masking out areas where you don't want the effect applied or it needs fading.

[flexmanta]

And going back to what some meant by desaturation, here's an example of why an image should never be desaturated for achieving a proper black and white conversion. As you can see, desaturating different pure colors will turn them all the same shade of grey. With a black and white adjustment layer you have control over the value that will adopt each hue.

[fotogen]

Originally Posted by flexmanta

And going back to what some meant by desaturation, here's an example of why an image should never be desaturated for achieving a proper black and white conversion. As you can see, desaturating different pure colors will turn them all the same shade of grey. With a black and white adjustment layer you have control over the value that will adopt each hue.

Flexmanta,
I am a bit confused here just need a bit more information.
Are you saying for fashion desaturated, I should add a B&W layer in CS4 and then lower the opacity until I get most of the color back?

Thank You again
Hadi

[flexmanta]

No no. Two different topics being treated here.

Fashion whitening:
Turn red channel into a selection, fill it with white on a new layer, adjust opacity.

Black and white conversion:
Do not just desaturate, use a black and white adjustment layer instead. Reason and difference explained by the captures attached on my previous post.

[Gee]

i'd love to get more tools/tricks to get some proper whites on pictures.
specially for architectural/backgrounds.

so far i use a lot of calculations :p

[sid_v]

Stay tuned http://lidophotography.blogspot.com/...of-toning.html

hope it helps

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by flexmanta

No no. Two different topics being treated here.

Fashion whitening:
Turn red channel into a selection, fill it with white on a new layer, adjust opacity.

Black and white conversion:
Do not just desaturate, use a black and white adjustment layer instead. Reason and difference explained by the captures attached on my previous post.

The guy want to know how to do this kind of things: http://SaschaHuettenhain.deviantart....e-III-85629893

[sid_v]

Our tutorial here is called Selective Desaturation

http://lidophotography.blogspot.com/...aturation.html

try it out. Leave a comment if it helps

sid.

[flexmanta]

I like that technique, sid v. For one second i though it was about THAT other selective desaturation, which should be banned in my opinion. Yeah, that one that has been used on scenes like wine being poored in a nice glass. Everything is grey and the wine is red. And people go, ooooh, i like that. And now you see it EVERYf-ingWHERE! Haha..

Thanks man

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by flexmanta

I like that technique, sid v. For one second i though it was about THAT other selective desaturation, which should be banned in my opinion. Yeah, that one that has been used on scenes like wine being poored in a nice glass. Everything is grey and the wine is red. And people go, ooooh, i like that. And now you see it EVERYf-ingWHERE! Haha..

Thanks man

HAha... that silly desaturation technique... Also used in wedding photography, when all is desaturated but the flowers! LOL!!!!

[limelight]

Try copying your retouched image to a new layer and applying a gradient map (Image -> Gradient map). Then set the blend mode to overlay, soft light or hardlight (as you like) and adjust the overall opacity or use a layer mask for partial adjustments. That's it.

[slash-5]

Dear Lord, Limelight. I just tried that and it's fantastic.

[fotogen]

Originally Posted by limelight

Try copying your retouched image to a new layer and applying a gradient map (Image -> Gradient map). Then set the blend mode to overlay, soft light or hardlight (as you like) and adjust the overall opacity or use a layer mask for partial adjustments. That's it.

Limelight, thank you for your response. Are you saying that I should apply Gradient map to the image directly with Black and White as foreground and background colors? Or create a gradient map layer above the retouched image and change the gradient layer's opacity?
How is this different from what is explained in the tutorial please?

Also, how do I group my retouched layers? I do not want to flatten my image and lose the layers I created during retouching to apply the gradient map to it, is that possible? I guess I can create a layer above all the layers and merge everything into that one, then apply gradient map to that? Now, how do I do that ?

[limelight]

Originally Posted by slash-5

Dear Lord, Limelight. I just tried that and it's fantastic.

glad I could help ;-)

To really make your fashion shots pop, push the Exposure of your highlights. To do so add an Exposure-Layer push your Exposure by 0,3 - 0,5. Add an inverted mask to that layer and paint over the highlights in your pic with a soft feathered brush using white. Adjust the luminosity of the brush/layer if needed.

enjoy!

[limelight]

Originally Posted by fotogen

Limelight, thank you for your response.

That's what we're all here for isn't it ;-).

Originally Posted by fotogen

Are you saying that I should apply Gradient map to the image directly with Black and White as foreground and background colors? Or create a gradient map layer above the retouched image and change the gradient layer's opacity?

How is this different from what is explained in the tutorial please?
Also, how do I group my retouched layers? I do not want to flatten my image and lose the layers I created during retouching to apply the gradient map to it, is that possible? I guess I can create a layer above all the layers and merge everything into that one, then apply gradient map to that? Now, how do I do that ?

First activate the "eyeball" in front of all layers you want to merge. Activate your top layer and press Ctrl + Alt + Shift +E at the same time. This will merge your visible layers to a new layer (as a copy) leaving all other layers in place. If you press Ctrl + Shift + E leaving away the Alt key it will merge the visible layers to a new layer and delete the merged layers. It depends on what you want to do. The Alt key makes a huge difference when merging.

Then choose b&w as fore- and background colors. Create a gradient map and adjust the opacity of this gradient map in the layers palette to meet your taste. You can tone your pictures by choosing different fore- and background colors.

How it's different from the tutorial? I have no Idea. I don't have time to ready all tutorials. Sorry. Judge for yourself and choose the method you prefer ...

[fotogen]

limelight,

Thank you again.
With the Gradient Map, you can actually push the highlights by moving the right slider (highlight) toward left. I do this all the time for my B&W images.
I do not like the B&W filter photoshop CS3 and up has provided, maybe I don't know how to use it

[Kcupcake]

Originally Posted by flexmanta

Ok, but know that this will not magically make your photo look good. Retouching takes time and there is no one step fix. This is one of many steps used to make everything look white and less saturated without letting it all look gray. For architectural photography especially, there are many other things that have to be done, and sometimes it will not be the red channel that will provide you with the best selection. You can try this mainly on portraits, as the red channel should be the one that will reveal more of the skin. You can also experiment with other colors and blending modes, and inverting your selection.

Steps for quick whitening an image:
-Create a blank layer where you will be adding white later.
-Open the channels palette.
-Ctrl-click the red channel to load it as a selection (ctrl-alt-3).
-Back to the layers palette and still having the selection, fill the selection with white on the layer created on step one.
-ctrl-d to deselect.
-Adjust opacity of the new layer and consider masking out areas where you don't want the effect applied or it needs fading.

this is brilliant!!

[MBChamberlain]

Limelight,

Interesting technique, but I would modify it some, instead of using a gradient map (and, personally, I would use a GM adjustment layer rather than a duplicated layer if I were to do it that way), I found I had better luck by using a channel mixer layer to do a black and white conversion (a far superior method to the crappy black and white tool in PS) and blending that on soft light.

Gradient map essentially pulls the luminosity channel, which tends to really show a lot of texture and grain. Blending this will enhance those aspect, in some cases rendering the three hours you just spent making her skin perfect moot. A well-made channel mix will keep the grain and texture enhancing to a minimum.

Cheers,
Michael

[benr]

If you want a live, non-destructive method, get to know the Hue/Saturation adjustment layer. The key is getting a good, soft edged selection of just the skin tones using the hue sliders at the bottom. Then you can use the Hue/Sat/Lightness controls to take the skin tones wherever you need. Generally, you'll be in the ballpark of yellows and reds, and sometimes you'll want a second selection to hit the shadows differently using the same adjustment layer, but a different color in the "Edit:" drop-down. (Although since Photoshop renames them based on their range, you may end up with two called "Red".)

[thehjj]

The problem with that gradient map technique is that you have no control over the tonality of the b/w gradient map that you're applying. If you use a b/w adjustment layer, you can control the final output more. You can even go back and tweak your results.

I use the b/w adjustments layers a lot to adjust overall tonality of my photos and to control the saturation a bit. I keep the blending mode on normal, and then bring the opacity to around 20-25% depending on the photo. It's great for when a curve layer boosts your saturation when you didn't want it to.

Boosted saturation after adding a curve:
http://jimmytothejohnston.com/before.jpg
After I added the b/w adjustment layer:
http://jimmytothejohnston.com/after.jpg
Side note, the warm to cool gradient on the wall behind her was in camera, something about how the light was coming in through the window. I like to call it 'a gift'.

But flexmanta's thing for adding the layer of white into the selection of the red channel is pure brilliant! I've been trying to figure out how to do something like that for a while.

[leuallen]

A quick play around using some of above techniques. There are many variations possible.

On the white fill-red channel selection layer, I masked so that only the skin was effected. The lips and eyes were not masked so they kept their color.

On the gradient layer I masked out the eyes so they were not effected and remained lighter.

Finally combined all layers into one and added a shadow/highlight adjustment so that I liked the shadow.

Use one, use all. Have fun.

Look better on my monitor contrast and black are better. Lost something in conversion with screen grab.

Larry

[leuallen]

Variation on previous post. This time changing the shadow color.

First add a color adj layer. Color a high saturation color, here used turquoise to cool shadows. Yellow would warm and so on, experiment. Set blend to exclusion and opacity to around 10%. Paint on mask with black, the skin and areas you don't want the cast on - it looks better. Include eyes and lips in mask.

Next do the red channel selection - white layer fill. Mask for effect.

Finally, the gradient map. Mask.

Shadows/Highlights did not seem to be needed here.

The layer panel for ref. Layers turned off are from previous example.

Larry