Skin Tone help?

[fotogen]

I am sorry if I am posting on something that might have spoken about many times on the forum.
I need some advice/technique to correct and even out skin tone on an image. What is the best trick to do this please? I have attached an image which I like to keep in color but the skin tones do not look right, they are not even and it is a bit yellow. Color balance is correct based on 50% gray card. I unsaturated the image a bit using B&W filter.
I have heard that you can create a layer and paint it with a skin tone, change the layer mode to "color" and then apply to the skin. I have tried this and it does not look right.
You are more than welcome to change the skin tones on the image posted and re-post the results.

Thank You
Hadi

[flexmanta]

First of all, im guessing you mean 18% grey card. Then, if you paint one single color on a layer set to color mode, then the whole painted area will adopt that color (hue and value), and it looks wrong because skin, although being primarily out of blue, short of green and rich in red, there are various hues there.

This is what you can do. First of all, I like to eyeball this stuff. I don't really like it when people get all purists about the tones pretending they know it all about it and then you see them correcting in RGB (which is device dependent), only to see that the print doesn't look as they intended. Eyeball it, BUT, eyeball the print unless you have a correctly calibrated screen, printer and paper.

If you still feel like giving it some values, the most precise way to go is to use curves and monitoring some samples. Use the eyedropper tool and shift click on an area of the skin that is more or less mid-tone. By shift clicking you will create a sample and the info pallet will show up telling you the exact rgb/cmyk/lab value of the pixel you just sampled. Then, by using the curves adjustment layer you created, you can change those values to the correct ones. Now, here comes the cool part. Go look for a photo with a skin color that you like, sample a similar area, and see what the values are. Then, change your values in your photo to bring them closer. That'll get you in the ball park. One thing you need to know is the complementary of red green and blue. To add magenta, reduce green. To add yellow, reduce blue and to add cyan, reduce red... and viceversa. If you don't find a photo with a skin color that you like, you can also google skin color values. It's a good practice that you keep notes of values for the different types of skin.

Now, that was the control freak version of skin correction. The easiest way is by using the selective color adjustment layer and modify only the reds. That works ok. What that layer will do is let you modify just the color you choose from the previous layer (the original photo). Say you want to correct the skin, then what you do is modify mainly the reds by adding or subtracting cmyk values. If there is a lot of red in the photo that you don't want modified (red clothing, background...), then you can mask away the parts you want to preserve.

Im really reeeeealy tired back from the studio now, so if you need more specific tips, let us here know.

[Cuervo79]

Fotogen you did lower the opacity of the solid color layer to 40% or less didn't you? Normally what I told you about the solid color layer works but not always because like Flexmanta said skin isn't just one color but many so sometimes the solid color layer doesn't always work. You can however make multiple solid color layers set to color with different skin colors and applied to different parts of the model.

If that doesn't work for you you can use as Flexmanta suggested a selective color layer or a color balance layer or even a hue/saturation layer to adjust the skin tones you will always need to use masks if the adjustment is big. I agree with Flexmanta on doing it a bit by eyeballing the color.

[fotogen]

Flexmanta, Thank you for your input but I am totally confused. Are you saying that I should create a curves layer and then go to each color, R, G and B and change their curves until I get the correct colors? But this shifts the skin colors in all areas. I also like to be able to even out the tones of the skin so some places where it is too red, I would like to reduce the redness in that area only. Can you please post an example of before and after and show me what you did? Is there a video tutorial on skin tones and colors, I do so much better visually

C79, Thank you for your help as well. And yes, I did change the opacity to 40% but it is not exactly what I was looking for. Look at the image I posted here. The skin tones are not even. I like to not only change the skin color a bit but to also even out the skin tones.

[Cuervo79]

Recommendation... think of each "problem skin tones" as individuals, target each one with whatever method you want to use.
If you think of the skin tone as a whole you get the problem that if you fix one side the other looks worse. Most of the time the adjustments have to be made to individual parts in order to get them looking "normal"

[flexmanta]

Hey fotogen, yes, that's what i meant. You correct values for one a sample and that should change the colors of all image. That is exactly what you want. If color shift in a way you don't want them to, then 2 things have happened. Either you chose the wrong sample, or your color were right in the first place. Are you sure you are using your 18% grey card correctly? You can still mask the curves adjustment layer so that it only affects skin, but that should not be necessary since, if one color is right on a photo, then the rest should be too.

http://www.retouchpro.com/pages/skintones.jpg
http://www.retouchpro.com/pages/haircolor.jpg

Those are RGB color charts. Another thing you can do is, if you shoot raw, then check if the background has still some of the info, even if it is out of your histogram. If it does, try using it as your white before making the raw conversion. There are some people who use various conversions for a single psd, ie. one for the eyes, one for the skin and so on (regarding white balance).

[kkamin]

Your image is full of neutral tones to color balance from. Use the eye dropper tool in PS, change the sample size to at least '11x11 pixels' which is located on the context sensitive, overhead bar, and hold down the shift key to drop sample points in your neutral areas--the light gray in the bottom right would be good as well as her light black shirt. If the info palette you will be able to see the color information of your sample points and they will be numbered.

Make a curves adjustment layer. Choose the 'target adjustment tool' in the curves window (it is a finger pointing upward next to a double-ended arrow). You want to get the R,G,B channels to be the same number for your sample points since you sampled in neutral toned areas. For example, if the BLUE number is too high at your light gray sample point, go into the blue channel and with the Target Adjustment Tool selected, click and drag on that sample point and drag it up or down to change the value. you can also just click the sample point and then use the arrow keys to control the point on the curve. Do that to both your neutral points and see how it looks. It is good to have a series of neutral points to balance off of, that is why they sell those gray scale cards with normally anywhere from 3-11 steps.

Sometimes balancing your neutrals won't completely neutralize the color casts on skin tone and you need to go in and color correct the skin tones themselves. Same idea, go in and drop some sample points on the skin. You want to select an area outside of a highlight on the face. Sample a few areas. And in the info palette, change your sample point information from RGB to CMYK. A starting point with color balancing skin is to have your Cyan value about 3 to 5 times as small as Yellow (or have yellow be between 3-5 times that of Cyan...same thing). Magenta close in value to Yellow, but Yellow a little big higher. blacK should be 0 if you sampled a light enough area outside a highlight. This is for Caucasian skin like your model, so an example of good numbers would be C:5 M:20 Y:22 K:0. See how Yellow between 3-5 times as large as Cyan, and Yellow is slightly bigger than Magenta. This is just a starting point and you can further make adjustments from here. Many professionals swear by this recipe. I find this technique as a starting point very crucial. If there is a cast on the skin, sometimes it is hard to see since our eyes adjust to color casts or along the same vein we can have a hard time seeing subtle color problems until identified and corrected. Numbers are a good solid reference point for neutrals and work fairly well for skin.

[Quantum3]

I used to do it the hard way, but somehow, I find better results by doing it the easier way. Adding a gradient map set to color and 40% opacity or less. Make sure to mask out what isn't skin.

[BuddhaBIO]

@kkamin is this the method others named "correction by numbers"? thanks

[Quantum3]

My advice is to keep the numbers as a guide. Specially if you have an argument with your client, lol!

[kkamin]

Originally Posted by BuddhaBIO

@kkamin is this the method others named "correction by numbers"? thanks

Yes. I recommend the portrait retouching course at Lynda.com by Chris Orwig if you want to see it in action and explained 1000x better than I did.

[kkamin]

Originally Posted by Quantum3

I used to do it the hard way, but somehow, I find better results by doing it the easier way. Adding a gradient map set to color and 40% opacity or less. Make sure to mask out what isn't skin.

Can you explain that process a little bit? I'm looking for some short cuts.

[fotogen]

Originally Posted by flexmanta

Hey fotogen, yes, that's what i meant. You correct values for one a sample and that should change the colors of all image. That is exactly what you want. If color shift in a way you don't want them to, then 2 things have happened. Either you chose the wrong sample, or your color were right in the first place. Are you sure you are using your 18% grey card correctly? You can still mask the curves adjustment layer so that it only affects skin, but that should not be necessary since, if one color is right on a photo, then the rest should be too.

http://www.retouchpro.com/pages/skintones.jpg
http://www.retouchpro.com/pages/haircolor.jpg

Those are RGB color charts. Another thing you can do is, if you shoot raw, then check if the background has still some of the info, even if it is out of your histogram. If it does, try using it as your white before making the raw conversion. There are some people who use various conversions for a single psd, ie. one for the eyes, one for the skin and so on (regarding white balance).

flexmanta: As I am sure you know, the 18 % gray card is normally used for two purposes:
Exposure
Color Balance
For color balance, all you need is a neutral color that has R=G=B. White is no longer used since those values can saturate and might look like they are all the same but in fact they are not. So Gray is used at any percentage of reflection, typically 18% or 50%.
To balance the color of the light and prevent any color casting, I photograph the 50% card in the same light I am going to photograph the model with the same exposure. I then force the camera to do "Custom White Balance", event though I am shooting RAW. I then photograph the card again. I do keep the images of the gray card and when looking at the second image in camera raw, it reads 128, 128, 123, ,meaning that it was rendered by the camera as totally neutral.
Am I correct in my way of doing things?

Thank You

[Quantum3]

Yeah.

1) select skin by using your preffered method.
2) add a Gradient Map adjustment layer.
3) Set the blending to Color.
4) Set the opacity to no more than 40%.
5) set up the gradient map colors to something around the skin colors (you can sample from the skin colors as well).

That's all

[fotogen]

Also, when looking at my image that I posted, what do everyone think is wrong please? I know something is not right with the skin tones, but I can not tell if it is the skin color or the un-even tones of skin.

Quantum, Can you please post a before and after if not too much trouble. This sounds really easy

[fotogen]

Originally Posted by fotogen

flexmanta: As I am sure you know, the 18 % gray card is normally used for two purposes:
Exposure
Color Balance
For color balance, all you need is a neutral color that has R=G=B. White is no longer used since those values can saturate and might look like they are all the same but in fact they are not. So Gray is used at any percentage of reflection, typically 18% or 50%.
To balance the color of the light and prevent any color casting, I photograph the 50% card in the same light I am going to photograph the model with the same exposure. I then force the camera to do "Custom White Balance", event though I am shooting RAW. I then photograph the card again. I do keep the images of the gray card and when looking at the second image in camera raw, it reads 128, 128, 123, ,meaning that it was rendered by the camera as totally neutral.
Am I correct in my way of doing things?

Thank You

I mean to say "when looking at the second image in camera raw, it reads 128, 128, 128". Sorry about that

[Quantum3]

The skin looks pretty nice I think, except for the arm (too dark and redish) I added a gradient map to it, the change is subtle but effective and dodged with curves that arm. Don't drive yourself so crazy with correct colors, I had worked with tons of photographers and they usually care that the image looks good, even if the skin looks like an alien, if looks good, looks good =D

After (use the before you have to compare):

[fotogen]

Quantum, Thanks for your tips and help. You are right, sometime we drive ourselves crazy over small things. It is the perfectionist that lives within most artists. I photograph the images I retouch, so I have no excuse for having bad skin tones due to lighting

[fotogen]

Quatum, I just looked at your images on your web site. Amazing work, wow...
Do you mind if I ask you what you do for skin texture please? I have another thread about skin texture and have gotten great tips. Was wondering what you use. Your skin textures are very prominent.

Also, how do you get rid of an eye dropper point once you place it on the image using shift click while in eye dropper mode. I can not delete the point off of my image.
One last question please, Can one set the sensitivity of of the pen pressure of a Wacom tablet in photoshop or using its own utility? I think mine is too sensitive. I have a hard time creating really thin lines with little pressure.

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by fotogen

Quantum, Thanks for your tips and help. You are right, sometime we drive ourselves crazy over small things. It is the perfectionist that lives within most artists. I photograph the images I retouch, so I have no excuse for having bad skin tones due to lighting

Bad skin tones is one thing, but nice ones (whatever realistic or not) is another thing. Don't confuse both.

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by fotogen

Quatum, I just looked at your images on your web site. Amazing work, wow...
Do you mind if I ask you what you do for skin texture please? I have another thread about skin texture and have gotten great tips. Was wondering what you use. Your skin textures are very prominent.

Also, how do you get rid of an eye dropper point once you place it on the image using shift click while in eye dropper mode. I can not delete the point off of my image.
One last question please, Can one set the sensitivity of of the pen pressure of a Wacom tablet in photoshop or using its own utility? I think mine is too sensitive. I have a hard time creating really thin lines with little pressure.

Let see...

The technique I use is splitting into frequencies: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=439098 and a bit of degrunge: http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=213 (the part of the quick degrunge). Then I do different sharpens depending on the image size by using the splitting technique once more (you can use that technique for almost all the retouching work).

To get ride of the eyedroper sample points just select your eyedroper and look for the "clear" button on the tools bar. You may need to cicle between those measurement tools. I usually don't use those, but the "clear" button is around theere. Also, by holding Alt, I think, you can Alt click and that should remove the sampler point, try with Alt or Ctrl/Cmd if not working with Alt.

Mmmhhh The wacom thing... You can set the pressure in PS by going to the brushes palette and checking Shape Dynamics. Set the corresponding slider to zero, or you will have a jitter thing when drawing. Also, you can set the minimum diameter of the brush when pressing the pen. I use to check that box if I want to activate the pressure. Also, if you set a flow of 1%-4% you can avoid pressing your pen to obtain more opacity. I just use flow and sometimes the shape dynamics feature, for masking for example. And then you can vary the brush size, for example, the bigger the brush size, the more pressure you will have to apply.

With the wacom settings you can accent or diminish these settings.

Hope this helps,

Mart

[fotogen]

Mart, I still can not remove the eye dropper samples on the image. I can move them using Cntr key but can not find the clear button. I feel really stupid

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by fotogen

Mart, I still can not remove the eye dropper samples on the image. I can move them using Cntr key but can not find the clear button. I feel really stupid

There is the thing, let me know if that helps:

[mistermonday]

Fotogen, to get rid of the eyedroper samples (they are also referred to as targets), activate the Eyedropper tool, hold down the Shift key (on a PC) abd move the tool over a sample (target). Once over the target the eyedropper symbol will turn into an arrow. When this happens click your mouse and drag the sample all the way off the image into the norder of the monitor - and its gone.
Regards, Murray

[fotogen]

Murray, Mart,

I got it now Thank you both. SHIFT and clicking on the eye dropper and dragging it off the canvas deletes the sample point.
I was using the wrong Eye Dropper, It is Sample Color one that has "Clear" button
Sorry about that.

Thank You again

[mistermonday]

Fotogen, There clear button will only appear if the Color Sampler Tool is selected from the toolbar (which most of us never use directly). If the Eyedropper tool is selected, the clear box is not present in the tool bar. Therefore to delete a Sampler you ether need to Shift + Drag it off the canvas OR if you hold down the Alt Key and position the eyedropper over the sample it will turn into a scissors and if you click your mouse it will delete the sampler without having to drag it.
Regards, Murray

[kkamin]

Originally Posted by Quantum3

Yeah.

1) select skin by using your preffered method.
2) add a Gradient Map adjustment layer.
3) Set the blending to Color.
4) Set the opacity to no more than 40%.
5) set up the gradient map colors to something around the skin colors (you can sample from the skin colors as well).

That's all

Thanks. I am confused as to what it is doing exactly? Is it like split toning? Does one end of the gradient target the dark tones and the other end target the light tones?

[holgaman]

Fotogen,
This pertains to your original question, and I didn't read all the post here so forgive me if I repeat someone else's post. I think the skin tones acually look very nice, at least on my laptop monitor (calibrated but not perfect). You didn't mention what kind of gray card you used to set the white balance. Not all gray cards are meant for white balance, eg. the Kodak gray card is more suited to determining exposure and is not really neutral gray. I think there is a range of acceptable skin tones, not just one. I once had a designer tell me that the skin tones in a photo I had done were not correct (there were 5 people, all with different skin). She then proceeded to tell me what the correct readings should be in CMYK (didn't mention which person or what part of the face the readings should be taken from). I had a hard time even knowing where to begin responding, she expected them to all look exactly the same.

You have pretty neutral surroundings in your photo, so it's pretty easy to eyeball. The perception of colors are greatly affected by surrounding colors. If this were a blue or green background, the skin colors, though technically correct would not appear so to the eye. Sometimes you just have to use your best judgment based on experience to get what you're looking for.

By the way, the newest version of Capture One Pro (version 5) has a nice feature for working with skin tones, including evening out tones in a nice way that doesn't look too fake or processed.

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by fotogen

Murray, Mart,

I got it now Thank you both. SHIFT and clicking on the eye dropper and dragging it off the canvas deletes the sample point.
I was using the wrong Eye Dropper, It is Sample Color one that has "Clear" button
Sorry about that.

Thank You again

YEah, it's not the eyedropper, but you can cicle between those measurement tools by shift "I". Each time you press "I" by holding Shift, you cicle between the measurement tools. Note the eyedroper in the tools bar in the screenshot I passed you, it's not the simple eyedroper

[fotogen]

Originally Posted by holgaman

Fotogen,
This pertains to your original question, and I didn't read all the post here so forgive me if I repeat someone else's post. I think the skin tones acually look very nice, at least on my laptop monitor (calibrated but not perfect). You didn't mention what kind of gray card you used to set the white balance. Not all gray cards are meant for white balance, eg. the Kodak gray card is more suited to determining exposure and is not really neutral gray. I think there is a range of acceptable skin tones, not just one. I once had a designer tell me that the skin tones in a photo I had done were not correct (there were 5 people, all with different skin). She then proceeded to tell me what the correct readings should be in CMYK (didn't mention which person or what part of the face the readings should be taken from). I had a hard time even knowing where to begin responding, she expected them to all look exactly the same.

You have pretty neutral surroundings in your photo, so it's pretty easy to eyeball. The perception of colors are greatly affected by surrounding colors. If this were a blue or green background, the skin colors, though technically correct would not appear so to the eye. Sometimes you just have to use your best judgment based on experience to get what you're looking for.

By the way, the newest version of Capture One Pro (version 5) has a nice feature for working with skin tones, including evening out tones in a nice way that doesn't look too fake or processed.

holgaman: Sorry, I meant to thank you for responding to this thread. Highly appreciate it.