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Advice on beauty image for retouch

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  #11  
Old 02-02-2010, 10:09 AM
secretagents secretagents is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Very sloppy quick hack done with KPT Equalizer and the history brush in 10-15 minutes. Also used the healing brush a bit and curves.
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:08 AM
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flexmanta flexmanta is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Guys, i'm sorry to say it, but it's kind of my duty: You are destroying the image attachment after attachment.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:31 AM
secretagents secretagents is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

It would be interesting if you'd elaborate a bit on that and/or perhaps show your own take on the matter, ie "high-end retouch" which as I understand it consists into smoothing out the skin with keeping the low frequency details (pores) which I think is what I have done.

Whereas this is perhaps not the most outstanding work I don't think I have destroyed the image either.

Anyway I think this orginal is not of quite sufficiently high resolution to satifactorily do what's called high end retouch.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2010, 12:27 PM
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flexmanta flexmanta is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Well. First of all, you are taking a too technical approach to what high end retouch is all about. There is no such thing as high end retouch to begin with. There's just two types of retouch, the one that gets you a job, and the one that will get you fired.

Now, i don't think that the reason for me seeing the retouch you have done here as a complete destroying of the image and you not seeing it is not other than just time, time and more time.

Im not going to point out what it is exactly that your image has or hasnt to explain why this is my opinion, that is something you have to do yourself.

Resolution is never a problem, in fact, it's almost a blessing to have a low res file for retouch. What matter is how the photo looks at 100% always. The lower res, the less detailed your selective adjusments will have to be.
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2010, 01:36 PM
aceto81 aceto81 is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Split frequencies, healing brush and D&B, took about 15min.

Ace
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  #16  
Old 02-02-2010, 02:33 PM
secretagents secretagents is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Well. First of all, you are taking a too technical approach to what high end retouch is all about. There is no such thing as high end retouch to begin with. There's just two types of retouch, the one that gets you a job, and the one that will get you fired.

Now, i don't think that the reason for me seeing the retouch you have done here as a complete destroying of the image and you not seeing it is not other than just time, time and more time.

Im not going to point out what it is exactly that your image has or hasnt to explain why this is my opinion, that is something you have to do yourself.

Resolution is never a problem, in fact, it's almost a blessing to have a low res file for retouch. What matter is how the photo looks at 100% always. The lower res, the less detailed your selective adjusments will have to be.
Most, if not all, of your statements are either senseless or meant to intimidate or both.

And btw don't count on me to explain why I am thinking that, it's something you have to do yourself
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:12 PM
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Cuervo79 Cuervo79 is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

I think the problem here isn't the retouch but the goal of the retouch. While the degrunge technique is a very useful one it doesn't give a realistic look if you overuse it. However there are times where this look looks great. For example a girl in a bikini.
But for beauty retouching normally you try to give a realistic look out of it. which means that you use solely D&B or D&B as the principal technique and degrunge as the helper.

Remember the OP is about a "Beauty Image" that is why I think Flexmanta is saying that the retouch examples later are "destroying" the image...
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:38 PM
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Fair enough. I apologize if that's how my message came across. See, there are sometimes that you know something is wrong but don't really know where to start explaining why. It's true that part of this possible explanation is that this is not the best image for retouching. Still i will try to be as objective as i can, knowing that you didn't put all your efforts and time on this retouch.


It looks like a beveled and embossed noise texturizing has been applied. This is what happens when we don't choose the right radii for blurs and high pass/apply image extractions during degrunging. Degrunging is a way of overall auto dodge and burn that should only be used when there is no time. Still, in case of doing it, it should also be thought of as an adjustment to be made stroke by stroke by using a mask and revealing the effect on specific spots and areas of the skin. The problem with it is that it's just too flawless... It increases/decreases luminosity of adjacent pixels to bring them closer to eachother but in an exact relative amount throughout the whole image. It's exacly that level of uniformity, what makes the pixel scream "IM RETOUCHED!", when done to the whole skin as a whole. Here is a hint for you. The untrained eye should NOT be able to tell whether a beauty photograph has been retouched or not.

Then, if it's degrunging your only option because of the unavoidable thing that is not knowing before having learnt, at least try to paint within the outlines. There is nothing worse than an area of the skin revealing how it really was before the softerning was applied (hair roots). Also, too big soft brushes can destroy the edges of a face even if 2% opacity of the brush spills out (see her left cheek). You blurred the edge man. Unforgivable! Hint 2. The outline of the standard photoshop brush behaves just like the marching ants. It shows where the 50% opacity points of the brush will join. That means, from the brush cursor outline inside, opacity starts at 50 and increases to 100% on a 100% opaque brush. Outside of the line, opacity starts at 50% and decreases gradually to zero. So... there is brush left outside ot the brush cursor. Be careful.

That's it for the skin. There is something I'm aware of. When we retouch on forums to help other retouchers and the topic is skin, well, we retouch just skin, right? Show how it's done with an example and that's it. No problem with that. Having said that, what did you do to the color? You killed her a little.



Again, sorry, but this is the way i critique, and the way I like to be critiqued. Please know that it's not personal. In fact, if i pick up one of the retouches i did say 7 years ago and i remember how awful the critique was, today i understand it all made sense just by looking at the photo for 1 second. It's a matter of time.
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2010, 03:53 PM
fotogen fotogen is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
I think retouching at pore level isn't needed here, some zoom in is needed to retouch the blotchiness, yes. And you can add some make up, remove some stray hairs and do some liquify and airbrushing to improve the lighting then sharping the image. You can take a look to my portfolio in order to see how can be handled the lighting by airbrushing it. You will not find much texture in my examples due the images size, but will be useful for you, I think.

Here you can see some "High-Res":

http://quantum3studio.pho.to/images/...8-70B0CA0D3994

http://quantum3studio.pho.to/images/...-DCA5263B9A66/

Mart
Mart, What method did you use for the texture on the skin on your images? I believe you explained it once to me in another thread but do you mind explaining what you have done on your images please?

Thank You
Hadi
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2010, 04:24 PM
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PeterWright PeterWright is offline
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Re: Advice on beauty image for retouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Fair enough. I apologize if that's how my message came across. See, there are sometimes that you know something is wrong but don't really know where to start explaining why. It's true that part of this possible explanation is that this is not the best image for retouching. Still i will try to be as objective as i can, knowing that you didn't put all your efforts and time on this retouch.


It looks like a beveled and embossed noise texturizing has been applied. This is what happens when we don't choose the right radii for blurs and high pass/apply image extractions during degrunging. Degrunging is a way of overall auto dodge and burn that should only be used when there is no time. Still, in case of doing it, it should also be thought of as an adjustment to be made stroke by stroke by using a mask and revealing the effect on specific spots and areas of the skin. The problem with it is that it's just too flawless... It increases/decreases luminosity of adjacent pixels to bring them closer to eachother but in an exact relative amount throughout the whole image. It's exacly that level of uniformity, what makes the pixel scream "IM RETOUCHED!", when done to the whole skin as a whole. Here is a hint for you. The untrained eye should NOT be able to tell whether a beauty photograph has been retouched or not.

Then, if it's degrunging your only option because of the unavoidable thing that is not knowing before having learnt, at least try to paint within the outlines. There is nothing worse than an area of the skin revealing how it really was before the softerning was applied (hair roots). Also, too big soft brushes can destroy the edges of a face even if 2% opacity of the brush spills out (see her left cheek). You blurred the edge man. Unforgivable! Hint 2. The outline of the standard photoshop brush behaves just like the marching ants. It shows where the 50% opacity points of the brush will join. That means, from the brush cursor outline inside, opacity starts at 50 and increases to 100% on a 100% opaque brush. Outside of the line, opacity starts at 50% and decreases gradually to zero. So... there is brush left outside ot the brush cursor. Be careful.

That's it for the skin. There is something I'm aware of. When we retouch on forums to help other retouchers and the topic is skin, well, we retouch just skin, right? Show how it's done with an example and that's it. No problem with that. Having said that, what did you do to the color? You killed her a little.



Again, sorry, but this is the way i critique, and the way I like to be critiqued. Please know that it's not personal. In fact, if i pick up one of the retouches i did say 7 years ago and i remember how awful the critique was, today i understand it all made sense just by looking at the photo for 1 second. It's a matter of time.
Flex - maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the low freq/high freq split was a good strater point for any beauty image, in order to allow the global shifts on the LF layer and retain the texture etc on the HF. Do I have this wrong ?
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