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Critique - 1st attempt

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  #11  
Old 01-30-2010, 02:03 PM
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PeterWright PeterWright is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

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Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Ok, ill try to make examples of where you need to d&b. As you say it does get hard to know where a stroke is needed. If you spent that much time on that face, you must be doing something wrong and have probably dodged and burnt parts that didnt even need it. Your eye will get used to see what needs work. Untrained people can only see "before afters", but can't point out what was done where.

For that reason, it's not a bad idea to help your untrained eye by temporarily boosting the flaws so you can spot them more easily. Some people create a desaturation adjustment layer as well as a very steep s-curve set to luminosity to boost the contrast of the flaws to be evened out.

Apart from that, know that you will need to work on 2 main levels. Pore level (pixels), and blemish level (large chunks). Here are 2 examples that illustrate what you see initialy, what your retouchers eye needs to be trained to see (s-curved), and how it needs to end up looking. These examples were done in 5 minutes or so, so the actual d&b is not of the best quality. I hope it helps you.
Thanks Flex - makes sense... work to do..
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2010, 05:51 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

After the various comments and help - thanks very much..

Here is another version - does this look better ?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/...7d34bac6_o.jpg
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:01 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Do you mind i use a part of the copy you just uploaded to touch it a bit?
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:15 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

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Originally Posted by PeterWright View Post
Thanks very much - it looks smoother than mine..

Would you mind telling me what you did ?
Well smoothing on a specific frequency range as you would guess but I don't use the cumbersome high pass layer technique, I use -big scoop- the Corel KPT Equalizer plugin for that purpose, very flexible and a real time saver.
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:54 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

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Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Do you mind i use a part of the copy you just uploaded to touch it a bit?
Not at all - that would be great..
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2010, 08:22 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Ok, i have done some stuff. Please know that the examples i made here are only for ilustration purposes and in no way should the quality level taken as a final result ready to deliver. I also apologise for uploading so much stuff. I have separated frequencies to show you where the main problem with this photo is. She is a good Caucasian with pink skin... pink skin is actually not pink, its more like color-less. That is why, in the thinner areas, more blood is visible underneath, and you got a red spot. That is the problem with caucasians, blood. The problem with other types of skin might be something like pores, wrinkles... not with most of the caucasians. So, by separating frequencies you get to fix the redder spots in an isolated way, without messing with the perfectly fine texture.

1st: An s-curved version of your low frequency so you can see how bumpy it was.
2nd: An evened out low frequency makes for a big improvement already.
3rd: An s-curved high frequency soloed.
4th: What your d&b layer should start looking like.
5th: Not nearly finished D&B. Carved it a little... one of the disadvantages of fixing low frequencies is that you lose volume. You get the idea.

Again, sorry for uploading so much stuff.
Another piece of advice. Go to model mayhem and use some of the photos that they have posted there. Some are big uncompressed RAW files straight out of the camera back. All this time that you have used this photo for learning you could have spent with an amazingly detailed photograph.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg low-frequency-s-curved.jpg (30.9 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg low-frequency-retouched.jpg (20.8 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg high-freq-s-curved.jpg (70.8 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg what-d&b-should-look-like.jpg (3.1 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg slightly-carved-final.jpg (72.9 KB, 73 views)

Last edited by flexmanta; 01-31-2010 at 08:28 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2010, 08:34 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Ok, i have done some stuff. Please know that the examples i made here are only for ilustration purposes and in no way should the quality level taken as a final result ready to deliver. I also apologise for uploading so much stuff. I have separated frequencies to show you where the main problem with this photo is. She is a good Caucasian with pink skin... pink skin is actually not pink, its more like color-less. That is why, in the thinner areas, more blood is visible underneath, and you got a red spot. That is the problem with caucasians, blood. The problem with other types of skin might be something like pores, wrinkles... not with most of the caucasians. So, by separating frequencies you get to fix the redder spots in an isolated way, without messing with the perfectly fine texture.

1st: An s-curved version of your low frequency so you can see how bumpy it was.
2nd: An evened out low frequency makes for a big improvement already.
3rd: An s-curved high frequency soloed.
4th: What your d&b layer should start looking like.
5th: Not nearly finished D&B. Carved it a little... one of the disadvantages of fixing low frequencies is that you lose volume. You get the idea.

Again, sorry for uploading so much stuff.
Another piece of advice. Go to model mayhem and use some of the photos that they have posted there. Some are big uncompressed RAW files straight out of the camera back. All this time that you have used this photo for learning you could have spent with an amazingly detailed photograph.
Thanks a bunch - now some stuff is beginning to click..

May I ask a question or two;

1. Low frequency - all good here and I get this part
2. High freqency - my "apply image" layer does not look grey (Linear light blend) - do you work on yours for D&B in the grey mode or in the blended mode ?
3 D&B layers - mine also do not look grey but are regular curves layers with black mask - is this correct ? How can I get mine to look like yours so I can compare ?

Once again - thanks so much for your help...
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2010, 08:50 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

2. Your apply image doesn't look grey?? It should. Linear light is a contrast mode, 50% grey has no effect. Review your apply image parameters and work in 16bits. Apply image according to 16bit. (Add, invert, scale 2, offset 0, linear light 100%). I work on my d&b layer viewing the whole image, not just the high freq, i still haven't got bionic eyes

3. There are many ways to dodge and burn an image. Working with curves is ok and needed when you work at 8 bits, but the increased amount of grey values available in 16bits makes it enough so that you can use half of the values for burning and half for dodging when using a 50% grey layer set to soft light and paint white or black on it. Most people use overlay, but i prefer soft light as it doesn't shift color so much. Also, i prefer a single layer so that i can switch from dodging to burning just by pressing the x key to switch from foreground to background color.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:05 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
2. Your apply image doesn't look grey?? It should. Linear light is a contrast mode, 50% grey has no effect. Review your apply image parameters and work in 16bits. Apply image according to 16bit. (Add, invert, scale 2, offset 0, linear light 100%). I work on my d&b layer viewing the whole image, not just the high freq, i still haven't got bionic eyes
It looks grey with these paramters until I select linear light - then it turns to looking exactly as the original image, which I thought was correct ?
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:12 AM
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
2. Your apply image doesn't look grey?? It should. Linear light is a contrast mode, 50% grey has no effect. Review your apply image parameters and work in 16bits. Apply image according to 16bit. (Add, invert, scale 2, offset 0, linear light 100%). I work on my d&b layer viewing the whole image, not just the high freq, i still haven't got bionic eyes

3. There are many ways to dodge and burn an image. Working with curves is ok and needed when you work at 8 bits, but the increased amount of grey values available in 16bits makes it enough so that you can use half of the values for burning and half for dodging when using a 50% grey layer set to soft light and paint white or black on it. Most people use overlay, but i prefer soft light as it doesn't shift color so much. Also, i prefer a single layer so that i can switch from dodging to burning just by pressing the x key to switch from foreground to background color.
I am also struggling now with where to remove my blemishes - I have been trying to add a healing layer over the low frequency and below the apply image layer - but any clone/healing work looks horrible and very strange results. I understood that blemsishes should be dealt with on the low freq layer but this does not seem to work ?
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