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Critique - 1st attempt

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  #31  
Old 02-01-2010, 05:55 AM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

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Originally Posted by PeterWright View Post
Ok - I am a sucker for punishment but here is another one from scratch..

Any improvement ..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2692/...15b2c700_o.jpg
This one looks much better. But the skin tone looks a bit green in some areas and the skin tone looks too matte (probably the make-up). The lips looks too similar to the skin color and the eyes are too sharpened. However, you did a nice job keping the pores of the skin. You will be doing good jobs in short
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  #32  
Old 02-01-2010, 06:00 AM
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PeterWright PeterWright is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

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Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
This one looks much better. But the skin tone looks a bit green in some areas and the skin tone looks too matte (probably the make-up). The lips looks too similar to the skin color and the eyes are too sharpened. However, you did a nice job keping the pores of the skin. You will be doing good jobs in short
Hey - thanks :-)

I looked at the skin colour so long I think I lost any objectivity..

Matte - she was actually a bit shiny oddly enough so it is funny I went too much the other way..
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  #33  
Old 02-01-2010, 06:01 AM
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flexmanta flexmanta is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Looking better. Im going to focus mainly on your dodge and burn. It looks like you did D&B the low signal. I don't know if you can notice, but there are some color shifts. This is normal as, in rgb, colors change hue when changed their value (the real color wheel is not really a radial radial gradient as we've been taught).

A way to correct this is to paint in color mode on a layer to correct the stuff that changed color.

Also, there are areas that still need d&b. When d&b'ing you need to decide the amount of softening that you want for that skin. D&B can be used to correct flaws leaving a perfect but realistic skin, but it can also be used to create an unrealistically perfect skin (always better looking than filtered skin). Now, the thing is that you need to be consistent with the intensity of your d&b throughout the whole photo. Say you have 2 pixels. One is 20 in Black, and the other one is 40 in Black. An extreme d&b would be to make them both 30. If that's what you want, do it on all the skin. The other way is to make one 25, and the other one 35, that way there's still a highlight and a shadow, leaving a realistically looking, say, pore... just not as volcano deep as it was before.

Im also going to comment on the eyes, but for that im going to make a little example that will make you FEEL what i mean instatnly (it's about the begginer's stage being something about TASTE and not so much about technique)
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  #34  
Old 02-01-2010, 06:08 AM
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PeterWright PeterWright is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Looking better. Im going to focus mainly on your dodge and burn. It looks like you did D&B the low signal. I don't know if you can notice, but there are some color shifts. This is normal as, in rgb, colors change hue when changed their value (the real color wheel is not really a radial radial gradient as we've been taught).

A way to correct this is to paint in color mode on a layer to correct the stuff that changed color.

Also, there are areas that still need d&b. When d&b'ing you need to decide the amount of softening that you want for that skin. D&B can be used to correct flaws leaving a perfect but realistic skin, but it can also be used to create an unrealistically perfect skin (always better looking than filtered skin). Now, the thing is that you need to be consistent with the intensity of your d&b throughout the whole photo. Say you have 2 pixels. One is 20 in Black, and the other one is 40 in Black. An extreme d&b would be to make them both 30. If that's what you want, do it on all the skin. The other way is to make one 25, and the other one 35, that way there's still a highlight and a shadow, leaving a realistically looking, say, pore... just not as volcano deep as it was before.

Im also going to comment on the eyes, but for that im going to make a little example that will make you FEEL what i mean instatnly (it's about the begginer's stage being something about TASTE and not so much about technique)
Flex - you are spot on..

I did find that the low freq layer and larger brush was easier to control and so did most of my work there - the problem with the small brush/high magnification on the HF layer is that I find it very tough to get any balance. I will work on an area (say a cheek) and look to balance out the pores in that area, but when I zoom out I have all these very small white streaks... so then I go back with my black brush and work, but then I lose all my balance and end up with white and dark streaks ;-)

For the colour layer - can you give me more in terms of how to do this and what colours are needed on this image ?

Thanks ..
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  #35  
Old 02-01-2010, 06:47 AM
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flexmanta flexmanta is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Ok, for the color part. See, there is this spot on the forehead that has kind of a halo around it that looks way more orange than the inside. Typical effect of d&B large areas. Try using a soft light db layer instead of overlay. One of the many ways to correct this is to create a new layer for all your color shifts and set it to color mode. Then, sample color from a color correct area, and paint on the area to be corrected. A lot of retouchers will hate me for having said that. But that's just an easy quick way. For correct colouring small areas most retouchers will use the selective color and correct reds and yellows increasing decreasing CMYK values. You can eyeball it if you really trust your monitor, or you can precisely monitor color samplers with the info pallet.


Now, about the eyes, see attachement. Nothing wrong with what you did. There is one thing about the begginer's stage, as i said before, that one needs to skip as soon as possible, and no, it's not the technique learning process which is very important. It's the taste part. Let's put it this way... say you dream of a girlfriend with sailor moon chic eyes... not cool for retouching. Screams I WILL PRESS EVERY BUTTON I CAN TO MAKE THOSE EYES POP! And you risk your photo to be used for a youtube tutorial.
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File Type: jpg Demodé27aug_0059.jpg (31.6 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by flexmanta; 02-01-2010 at 07:12 AM.
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  #36  
Old 02-01-2010, 07:11 AM
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PeterWright PeterWright is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Ok, for the color part. See, there is this spot on the forehead that has kind of a halo around it that looks way more orange than the inside. Typical effect of d&B large areas. Try using a soft light db layer instead of overlay. One of the many ways to correct this is to create a new layer for all your color shifts and set it to color mode. Then, sample color from a color correct area, and paint on the area to be corrected. A lot of retouchers will hate me for having said that. But that's just an easy quick way. For correct colouring small areas most retouchers will use the selective color and correct reds and yellows increasing decreasing CMYK values. You can eyeball it if you really trust your monitor, or you can precisely monitor color samplers with the info pallet.


Now, about the eyes, see attachement. Nothing wrong with what you did. There is one thing about the begginer's stage, as i said before, that one needs to skip as soon as possible, and no, it's not the technique learning process which is very important. It's the taste part. Let's put it this way... say you dream of a girlfriend with sailor moon chic eyes... not cool for retouching. Screams I WILL PRESS EVERY BUTTON I CAN TO MAKE THOSE EYES POP! And you risk your photo to be used for a youtube tutorial.
Ok - colour, noted and new version with changes made..

Eyes - LOL ! Lesson learned ... very funny..

New version with further HF D&B, Colour corrections and eyes softened..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/...e863699a_o.jpg
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  #37  
Old 02-01-2010, 10:33 AM
balcar balcar is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

I found some tutorials on retouching that worked great for me - http://www.christyschuler.com/retouching.html
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  #38  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:40 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

I think the latest retouch you did is getting better, but the skin looks too matte and the face too flat. I used to comit that mistake too. I know this is not the best way to put it, but you should think that D&B is like a shovel and the skin is like earth. So you take out earth to put it in other area of the face, so all will look in proportion and you can add more earth in the areas that you want something being prominent, such as the cheekbones. Like sculpting or like the bump maps in 3D.

Here is a fast attempt of global D&B over your pic, so you can compare and see the difference I'm talking about.
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File Type: jpg 4321577075_bce863699a_o.jpg (77.7 KB, 34 views)
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  #39  
Old 02-01-2010, 01:32 PM
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PeterWright PeterWright is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantum3 View Post
I think the latest retouch you did is getting better, but the skin looks too matte and the face too flat. I used to comit that mistake too. I know this is not the best way to put it, but you should think that D&B is like a shovel and the skin is like earth. So you take out earth to put it in other area of the face, so all will look in proportion and you can add more earth in the areas that you want something being prominent, such as the cheekbones. Like sculpting or like the bump maps in 3D.

Here is a fast attempt of global D&B over your pic, so you can compare and see the difference I'm talking about.
Wow - that really hit me..

Your work up is just so much darker and contrasted - I understand exactly what you mean so thanks for the example.

Can I ask - did you do most of this work on low frequency or pore level high freq, or both ?

I would like to try to understand how you got here..
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  #40  
Old 02-01-2010, 01:45 PM
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flexmanta flexmanta is offline
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Re: Critique - 1st attempt

Peter, there is a PSD file by Amy Dresser that shows a great example of carving. Download it. It's fully layered and you can find it here on the first post.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=332161
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