RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

facial retouch question

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-21-2010, 05:26 AM
soey soey is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
facial retouch question

can i know what the difference when i clear blemishes with these 2 different technique ??

1) Duplicate layer, set to current layer

2) Create New layer, set to current and below

basically i use clone stamp and healing brush on my facial retouch

BUT however when i used (2) and when i need to do some retouch again on the very last part of my images, it cant seem to work.

TIA
Reply With Quote top
  #2  
Old 02-21-2010, 06:39 AM
flexmanta's Avatar
flexmanta flexmanta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 339
Re: facial retouch question

I prefer using the first method so i can also use the patch tool. I do all my liquifying and general cloning and healing on one layer. So, after my initial retouch i have 2 layers, the original, and the cleaned one. There are many advantages in working this way but they have nothing to do with visual quality.
Reply With Quote top
  #3  
Old 02-21-2010, 07:17 AM
soey soey is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4
Re: facial retouch question

tks for reply..
i do know that there is no visual quality on both method
just tat i don understand it why i encounter the problem i mention in my first post


Am not trying to compare both DI artist

firstly i followed Amy Dresser tutorial from her website when i first started DI
she use the first method.

then next i came about nienna1990 from retouchpro, she used the second method

there nothing wrong with both method, both are great method
am try trying to digest both and make my workflow more consistently cos i do encounter some inconsistency in my D&B

btw i am a photographer
Reply With Quote top
  #4  
Old 02-21-2010, 09:02 AM
KR1156 KR1156 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: outside of the box.
Posts: 628
Re: facial retouch question

flexmanta.... separate your general cleanup work and your shaping...this way if you need to quickly go back on your shaping, you can do so without disrupting all that nice cleanup work you did.
Reply With Quote top
  #5  
Old 02-21-2010, 10:22 AM
jam1212's Avatar
jam1212 jam1212 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 108
Re: facial retouch question

I tend to use the second method simply to reduce my overall file size. I tend to work on huge images, so every little size reduction helps.

But I'm sure everyone can list pros and cons for both. I think it really comes down to what you want to achieve in your workflow.
Reply With Quote top
  #6  
Old 02-21-2010, 11:12 AM
flexmanta's Avatar
flexmanta flexmanta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 339
Re: facial retouch question

KR1156, that's incorrect. If liquify and cleanup are on one single layer, that's when you have the freedom to re-liquify whenever you want without risking misplacement of the cleanup strokes. If you had cleanup and original on different layers and you decide to reliquify, then you would have to save the liquify mesh and apply it to any other pixel based layer that sits on top of the liquified (masks, heals, clones...).

I do like to keep the whole thing "undoable", but only to some extent. It's very very rare that I get rid of a blemish and for any reason, need it back there again in the future. Once you gain confidence, you can tell what needs to stay undoable in many levels, and what needs just one level.
Reply With Quote top
  #7  
Old 02-21-2010, 01:11 PM
seattle-light's Avatar
seattle-light seattle-light is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC (formerly Seattle and New York)
Posts: 133
Re: facial retouch question

Dear soey (and flexmanta)...

I think you can actually have it both ways. Non-destructive healing work done in layers and a single cleaned up layer that gets liquified. It's just a matter of duplicating the original layer and all of the cleanup work and merging it into a single layer, then liquifying and saving the mesh for that merged layer. That way you've got everything you need to change things and repeat the process.

That allows you to work on multiple layers to address different issues and to go back and adjust the opacity of different layers or bring back that important beauty mark.

I suppose it means that files will get incrementally larger, but it preserves your working steps and keeps all of your options open. Hard drives and memory are comparatively cheap these days.

Doing all your cleanup work on one duplicate layer may demonstrate confidence, but it also limits your flexibility to tweak things later on down the road.

I remember when there weren't layers in Photoshop when you needed to have that kind of confidence at every step in the retouching process. And meant starting over if there was a mistep (or saving copies at every logical step in the process -- and a lot of times it meant settling for less because it would take too long to do it all over again to get back to fix a few suspicious choices made at the first stages.

Doing all of your healing and cleanup in one layer and then liquefying that layer sounds like a recipe for problems as all of your early work is trapped in that one layer that's been mushed around. No turning back.

If you're using the patch tool (never been a fan of it), maybe it makes some sense to be doing that work on a duplicate layer. I'd have to see the kind of work you're doing.

But it doesn't seem like you're preserving any kind of working history. Maybe that's confidence. But it doesn't seem like a best practices work flow for retouchers. It sounds more like walking a tightrope without a net. It can be great until there's a problem (then it's splat). If you haven't had many problems working that way, then you've been incredibly lucky.

But I wouldn't go around telling people that that's your approach or encouraging others to follow it. That approach would likely get people in trouble on projects. I can't think of an advertising agency or retouching house that would allow their people to do retouching work on files in this way.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.
Reply With Quote top
  #8  
Old 02-21-2010, 02:29 PM
KR1156 KR1156 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: outside of the box.
Posts: 628
Re: facial retouch question

flex...if you retouched let's say a beauty shot for a few hours of work, and then decided to shape the lips eyes and nose etc., on that same layer.....and the client comes back and says you went too far with the nose, we like the original shape of the model, what do you do???

If your way of going back on the nose shape takes more than 30 seconds, well.
Reply With Quote top
  #9  
Old 02-21-2010, 02:31 PM
KR1156 KR1156 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: outside of the box.
Posts: 628
Re: facial retouch question

Quote:
Doing all of your healing and cleanup in one layer and then liquefying that layer sounds like a recipe for problems as all of your early work is trapped in that one layer that's been mushed around. No turning back.
Listen to your friend here, he gets it.
Reply With Quote top
  #10  
Old 02-21-2010, 05:31 PM
flexmanta's Avatar
flexmanta flexmanta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 339
Re: facial retouch question

Quote:
Originally Posted by KR1156 View Post
flex...if you retouched let's say a beauty shot for a few hours of work, and then decided to shape the lips eyes and nose etc., on that same layer.....and the client comes back and says you went too far with the nose, we like the original shape of the model, what do you do???

If your way of going back on the nose shape takes more than 30 seconds, well.
If you have a high enough resolution image, you can reliquify the liquified image to make the client happy. However, the amount of liquifying i allow myself to do when retouching for other people is one that will never change the original shape of a model to an extent that anyone would notice... shouldnt be playing Dr. Frankenstein here u know...

Photoshop is not poser pro. It moves pixels, in 2d. Anything that you liquify too much, will be noticeable, especially on the face. Human brains are hard to trick when it comes to faces. If you are given a face that needs a complete shape shift and your client is serious enough, you can say "RESHOOT, or I'm not taking the risk". What i'm trying to say here is that, the level of changes you are supposed to do with the liquify tool (only talking about the actual face here, not the rest of the body), is so subtle, that saving a layer with each stroke that you made is completely useless. Most of the undestructive workflow practices are overrated.

Your way doesn't save you from not having to re-do the clean up layer either because if you go grab the original a liquify it without affecting your cleanup on a separate layer, then the cleanup strokes will not match the features of the new liquify.

Best solution? Do it all on a duplicate layer. Clean first, cmd-j, liquify. If you are happy with it, cmd-shift-opt-e the whole thing and move on to the creative stage. If for any reason they didn't like your liquify, no problem, you already have a clean-unliquified version to start again. And if you were ocd enough to save the liquify mesh, you might not have to do the whole thing again.

See, people are really starting to think that everybody works as tidy as in all those retouch tutorial DVDs out there. You would be surprised to see how much merging is done in the real world.








...get rid of some of the "undestructive workflow" stigmas. Keep only the ones you need. All the others have been designed by hard drive manufacturers, so that we all end up with 2Gb files that take ages to save, making us buy larger and larger scratch disks.

Last edited by flexmanta; 02-21-2010 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pictures to retouch? Heavynne Photo Retouching 5 05-17-2010 09:43 PM
Retouch question Bajki Photo Retouching 4 10-21-2009 07:29 AM
ReTouch Pro Live question GlamGuru Photo Retouching 3 07-27-2009 01:34 AM
Question ABOUT LEGAL ASPECT OF PHOTOSHOOT ppoppin Legal Issues 3 09-25-2008 12:28 PM
Facial perspective retouch. deethree Photo Retouching 5 12-24-2007 01:03 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved