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Can't D&B technique be greately simplified with...

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  #41  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:42 AM
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_jason_ _jason_ is offline
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Just a new try with slightly different adjustment.
(The picture is not color optimized and only the skin filters were edited/re-adjusted.)

Btw: I see some bluring on the "slow and accurate" picture...
Murray, thank you for all the help!
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Last edited by _jason_; 02-23-2010 at 10:52 AM. Reason: addition
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  #42  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:07 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Jason, It looks perhaps a bit over applied, but it shows enough promise I'd be interested to know the process and how long it takes.
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  #43  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:18 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Psychedelic Trance is the best way to D&B =D
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  #44  
Old 02-23-2010, 01:30 PM
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

I have been reading this post and i find it very interesting. However i wanted to point out that high pass is correctly named as the opposite of low pass. It's imprecise to think that it should not be called high pass because it affects both high and low L values.
See attachment and think of the signal as if they were bumps on the skin (sorry for the bad quality, i drew it quickly by hand. L stands for luminosity, and D for distance in pixels)

Here's a high pass filter applet that shows you exactly what HP does to a signal.
http://www.falstad.com/fourier/e-hipass.html
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Last edited by flexmanta; 02-23-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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  #45  
Old 02-23-2010, 03:57 PM
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Quote:
Originally Posted by _jason_ View Post
Just a new try with slightly different adjustment.
(The picture is not color optimized and only the skin filters were edited/re-adjusted.)

Btw: I see some bluring on the "slow and accurate" picture...
Murray, thank you for all the help!
Jason, as you can see at least in my eyes the method isn't remotely close to what normal D&B is done. That's the reason that D&B hasn't been automatized, because not all photos will be good candidates for an automation.

If you see blur, it was because of the shallow depth of field in the photo, and that was exactly the problem that I asked for help in the original thread, what do you do when the D&B you do ends up helping the blur.
In the end you have to play with how strong the D&B is done, this meant that it was done in different strengths depending on the part of the photo. The part of the cheek on the right needed the weakest D&B and as you got into the focused part of the eye and nose then the strength changed...
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  #46  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:21 PM
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Automating D&B would be like automating the "make prettier" technique, or the "turn an apple into a banana" technique. Unfortunately these techniques require complex brains like our's, and humanly imperfect drawing skills... like Cuervos'.
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  #47  
Old 02-23-2010, 04:34 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
Automating D&B would be like automating the "make prettier" technique, or the "turn an apple into a banana" technique. Unfortunately these techniques require complex brains like our's, and humanly imperfect drawing skills... like Cuervos'.
For best results.

But what Jason is doing looks like it might be a nice tool in the box for quickie jobs, or as an adjunct to D&B in the way that frequency separations are. However, I defer to your knowledge of such things.

What we need to do sometime is set up a thread for a Down&Dirty retouch. Someone puts up an image and people show what they can accomplish in a short, set amount of time. Perhaps, say, 15 minutes. I think it would be fun and might yield some interesting production techniques.
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  #48  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:03 PM
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
Jason, It looks perhaps a bit over applied, but it shows enough promise I'd be interested to know the process and how long it takes.
The amount of applying can be adjusted freeley on the fly because all is done with overlay layers on the skin parts using maskesd areas. That actually won't be possible wit doing it manually, right?

How long it takes?
Well, it depends of the complexity of a picture. If you know what to do, probably a very small fraction of the time you acually would need to do it all manually.

I mean, this actually is thought as an ALTERNATIVE and more qualitative way to the often used bluring (or inpropperly done patching and healing) in "quick retouching". Nothing more and nothing less.

The cool thing with all that is, you cannot make any manual errors due to the fact, that the source image keeps completely unaffectet by any changes. Thus, this is a kind of "filtering" technique.

.

Last edited by _jason_; 02-23-2010 at 09:09 PM. Reason: spelling, addition
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  #49  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:26 PM
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuervo79 View Post
Jason, as you can see at least in my eyes the method isn't remotely close to what normal D&B is done...
It's actually quite close in theory (using the same theoretical ground).
But well, in practice it isn't, of course (the human factor).

I did not do any research on aplying neuronal networks or other such higly complex mechanisma of simulating intelligence to the method yet. I merely used plain and very simple "calculations" for STATIC filtering contrasts similar to the D&B techniquue wich finally traces down to that very basic principle.

Theroretical it would be thinkable that one developes a "D&B Equalizer©" tool similar to the Photoshop "Healing" tool. (The Healing tool, as you know can be used in a wrong way too, as the technique behind is very simple.)

But developing such is not my concern and also would be a very specialized tool for skin retouching. So that's the job of Adobe or even specialized retouching program developers.


I am merely trying out some things (and I am not even approximately close to a solution yet) to improve my skills and probably finding some useful techniques, simplifying my live.

Jason

Last edited by _jason_; 02-23-2010 at 10:13 PM. Reason: spelling, additions
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  #50  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:47 PM
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Re: Can't D&B technique be greately simplified wit

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Originally Posted by flexmanta View Post
...However i wanted to point out that high pass is correctly named as the opposite of low pass. It's imprecise to think that it should not be called high pass because it affects both high and low L values.
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A bandpass filter does affect high and low frequencies too.

But I do know now that the name is probably right. (I've developed all kind of real time filters for audio processing - including fast fourier transform - in the past and it was not obvious to me how that is working inside the visual domain i.e. on pictures).

Jason
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