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Your opinion on D&B Please

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  #11  
Old 03-01-2010, 05:54 AM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Try the Splitting as much times as possible, 'cause that's the right way to clone. You can also copy texture and not the luminance with this technique.

The skin looks pretty nice, really. What I see as something that needs to be removed is the eye veins in the right eye, there is a very visible patch of veins there.

Very good job you did. Keep improving!
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2010, 10:22 AM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

A warning / reminder regarding working on a High Frequency layer is probably in order here. It is important to realize that A=B+C (Orig = Gaussian Blur + High Pass) applies at the pixel level. There is a unique relationship between the pixels on this pair of layers. As soon as you alter a pixel on either layer, the relationship no longer exists and A no longer equals B+C. Visually this may not be very noticeable or it may be very much so depending on what you do. Some people choose to treat these two layers as texture and color / tone. In fact, while the High Freq layer appears to be almost all gray, it is not. It is made up of lots of detailed edges with lots of colors surrounded by gray. The colors are adjacent to other colors which are low in contrast to itself but there is a lot of color information in that HF layer. You can get away with using the healing brush on that layer without creating too much of a mess. However, be very cautious when cloning as you can be introducing a lot of color polutioninto your target area.
Fotogen, you've done a great job on that skin.
Regards, Murray
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2010, 10:51 AM
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Der_W Der_W is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermonday
However, be very cautious when cloning as you can be introducing a lot of color polutioninto your target area.
That's why I always suggest using another copy of the original on "Color"-mode above all these layers.
Using the Desaturate-command on the B+C-layers and fading it to "Hue"-mode will eliminate the color from those layers and keep it all safe on the topmost layer (the fading is important because otherwise desaturating will change the luminosity as well).
However sometimes that's quite annoying because every time you heal a large red spot on the high layer, you have to fix the color on the Color-layer as well.

But that's not the discussion here ;-)
Apart from getting the hair a little cleaned up, I'd also suggest you to remove the hair on the arm and cheeks, removing some veins in her left eye and fixing her left eyebrow (tidying it up that is).
Very good job so far!
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2010, 11:14 AM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Jonas, at some point we need to apply a sanity check before working on a particular image. The whole point of Frequency Separation is to save time in the project, particularly when a lot of repair work needs to be done on the HF layer. The downside is that you now have a destructive flow compared to the traditional separate Clone/Heal layer. Sometimes the old traditional processes are still the best way to go.
Fotogen, good luck with the rest of the retouch. I am sure it will turn out as good a job as you've done with the skin.
Regards, Murray
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2010, 11:43 AM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

What is the downside to just desaturating the hi freq layer?

I get that there may no longer be an exact mathematical equivalency to the original (IOW, A would no longer be the exact equivalent of B+C) but in the small testing I've done that difference was undetectable to my eye (which could be a limitation of my eye, but I did score 100% on the X-riteg color accuracy test. http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77)

Point being, is it not advantageous to isolate color from texture in this technique, and cannot whatever changes occur from a desaturation of the hi freq layer (if visible at all) be compensated for with a minor curve tweak?
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  #16  
Old 03-01-2010, 11:47 AM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Or possibly better yet, setting the hi freq layer to luminosity blend mode via a smart object?
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2010, 12:06 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

I have a feeling someone is going to tell me that you can't clone on a smart object. The process would be:

1) create the hi freq layer as a smart object
2) double click the SO thumbnail to open it, run apply image on it, set the blend mode to luminosity and save the changes to the smart object
3) set the layer mode to linear light
4) rasterize SO.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2010, 12:23 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Flashtones, try playing with the attached zipped psd file. Two colors, one edge, frequency split. A simplified exaggeration to demonstrate what happens on an image when you disturb the relationship between the GB and HP layers. Try to heal and clone from a solid color to a section of the line. See the difference between heal and clone. Healing has a lot more forgiveness than cloning. See what happens when you desaturate the HP layer. Yes you can convert HF to SO and and clone / heal and come back. Same results, but just slows down and complicates the process.
I do use Freq Separation but not always - depends on the image. And it is important to keep into perspective what is really is that you are physically working with on that pair of layers.
Regards, Murray
Attached Files
File Type: zip Flashtones GB+HP-MM.zip (6.5 KB, 46 views)
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2010, 12:56 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermonday View Post
Flashtones, try playing with the attached zipped psd file. Two colors, one edge, frequency split. A simplified exaggeration to demonstrate what happens on an image when you disturb the relationship between the GB and HP layers. Try to heal and clone from a solid color to a section of the line. See the difference between heal and clone. Healing has a lot more forgiveness than cloning. See what happens when you desaturate the HP layer. Yes you can convert HF to SO and and clone / heal and come back. Same results, but just slows down and complicates the process.
I do use Freq Separation but not always - depends on the image. And it is important to keep into perspective what is really is that you are physically working with on that pair of layers.
Regards, Murray
I see, more complicated than I thought. That's why they pay you guys the big bucks. ;-)
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2010, 06:34 PM
fotogen fotogen is offline
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Re: Your opinion on D&B Please

Thank You everyone for your help and comments.
I watched a video that was available via download on this forum. I am not really sure who the instructor was. It was Free and had Indian music over it and had two parts to it, Part 1 was hair and Part 2 was skin. I don't have the link to it any longer but have watched it a few times already. Excellent video. That is the first time I learned how to do D&B on an image.
The instructor however does not do frequency separation, am I correct?

Thank You
Hadi
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