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Fashion Retouching Sharpening

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  #21  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:03 PM
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BagLady BagLady is offline
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Godmother,

Thank you for taking time to supply the links and explain why high pass sucks... I'm sure that the information you've provided will clear up other unanswered questions as well.

I don't think you're hiding anything and I'm sooo aware that everything is out there... I wasn't looking for answers until you said that the method I suggested for sharpening sucks... Your last explanation regarding the high pass filter (and why it shouldn't be used) is very clear... I, by all means am not looking to be spoon fed.... That's not part of the learning process, but a basic understanding of a new method is. It useless to try to learn something without the basic knowledge as to why a certain method should be used or how one might benefit by doing so. In any case, I'm happy to say that I've learned something new and I'm looking forward to experimenting. So, thank you Godmother, and I hope that if I have future questions, you'll be able to help (no spoon feeding, no recipes)

Hopefully this thread will continue here... I prefer the organization of RTP as opposed to Model Mayhem.


BagLady
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:11 PM
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Godmother Godmother is offline
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Quote:
Originally Posted by BagLady View Post
I prefer the organization of RTP as opposed to Model Mayhem.


BagLady
Who are you in MM?

x
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:48 PM
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmother View Post
Who are you in MM?

x
Just a guest... I should join, in that case it would be BagLady as well. I'm reading the thread again and now understand the sharpening with a curve (thanks for the link). Very nice!
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2010, 08:14 PM
jugenjury jugenjury is offline
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Disclaimer: I am also Photons 2 Pixels on MM. Nice to meet y'all except Godmother and Flexmanta who I know from MM.

What Godmother said is the basic idea behind why the cutest geek ever set out to find a better, more accurate method of separating spatial frequencies. His desire to share his findings with the MM community led to that thread and an abundance of information and help on the topic. Sean started to link pertinent posts within his opening post in that thread, but as more people became involved it became too much.

The basic idea is this: You separate the image into 2 or more spatial frequencies. To do this, you create stacked layers to hold each separate frequency. The first step is to blur your image. How much? The best answer is to blur it until the detail you want to maintain on a separate layer fades out. Just increase the radius until that detail disappears. Then go through the apply image step on your top layer. Then....

Here is a video I made that goes through the basics....

http://www.model-citizens.com/Tutori...paration-1.wmv

Or in flash video format...

http://www.model-citizens.com/Tutori...paration-1.flv

I also started a repository of files for using this technique here:

http://www.model-citizens.com/FreqSep/
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  #25  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:34 AM
darkenedangel darkenedangel is offline
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

just want to thank you for your clear explanations and now I will begin playing around wit it and experimenting. I never want to be spoon feed as I enjoy the process of learning but I was a little stuck reading through the whole thread as I couldnt pick out the things I needed to make it work for me, which was a little frustrating.

This is me and my photography/ retouching (and stream of unsharpened images lol)

http://www.modelmayhem.com/623474

on MM, but i dont really go on there at the moment, am focusing more on retouching at this moment in time
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  #26  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:42 AM
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Hello jugenjury,

Nice to meet you as well Thanks for posting... Your video makes things very clear! I was wondering how far to take the G blur (and how it effects the high frequency layer), so thank you very much for your explanation! At this point, I also send my thanks to Godmother for posting the thread and kicking my butt (rightly, so)! Hats off to Sean who generously posted his findings.
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2010, 12:03 PM
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkenedangel View Post
just want to thank you for your clear explanations and now I will begin playing around wit it and experimenting. I never want to be spoon feed as I enjoy the process of learning but I was a little stuck reading through the whole thread as I couldnt pick out the things I needed to make it work for me, which was a little frustrating.

This is me and my photography/ retouching (and stream of unsharpened images lol)

http://www.modelmayhem.com/623474

on MM, but i dont really go on there at the moment, am focusing more on retouching at this moment in time
Nice photos!
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  #28  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:22 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

DarkenedAngel, the process of image sharpening can get really fancy and complicated but it does not need to be.
BagLady referred to running the High Pass Filter on a "merged visible" layer and adding a layer mask to apply the sharpening only where you want it.
Most of the rest of this thread has dealt with splitting the image into low and high frequencies with the high frequency layer being equivalent to a High Pass filter but a more accurate than Photoshops Filter>Other>High Pass.
The fact is that Photoshop has for the past 20 years included a much maligned, much misused, often misunderstood but powerful sharpening tool called Filter>Unsharp Mask. The fact is that if you create an accurate High Pass using the Frequency Split and turning off the Low Frequency Layer your resulting image will be identical to one created by using Photoshops Unsharp Mask Filter at the same Radius as the frequency split, with the amount = 100 and the threshold set to zero. You can verify this by creating a split, placing a copy of the BG above, running USM at the same Radius and changing its blend mode to difference - everything will be black and 0,0,0.
However, USM provides much greater control with the threshold and amount sliders covering a huge range. You can mask the layer and apply it selectively. You can also convert the layer beforehand to a Smat Object which will automatically give you a layer mask and the SO is infinitely editable. The only control you have with High Pass, inaccurate or accurate, is to increase or decrease the contrast of the High Pass / High Freq layer which is kind of a crude way and is limited or adjust opacity.
What I almost always do before applying the USM filter is take a few seconds to choose the correct radius. To do that I go Filter>Other >High Pass. You don't apply the filter but only use its window to adjust the Radius until it reveals the detail you want (always view image at 100% zoom). You then cancel the filter and use that radius value in the USM filter.
For each image I select the amount of sharpening that looks just right for that part of the image. More often than not, the value is not 100. Sometimes it is well below 50, other times much higher than 100. With HP/HF you are stuck with 100 unless you add a contrast adj layer or fiddle with the opacity or paint on the mask with partial opacity.
Not withstanding all of the above, there are yet many other methods of sharpening and there have been many entire books written on the subject. I use the methods above as well as others. So I suggest that you experiment and discover which methods work best for you.
Regards, Murray
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  #29  
Old 05-19-2010, 03:49 AM
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Der_W Der_W is offline
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

That was exactly my thought as well (http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?th...2#post12576706), but the benefits of using the highpass (sucks) solution is that you can treat highlights/shadows separately in an easier way than with the unsharp mask.
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  #30  
Old 05-19-2010, 08:39 AM
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Re: Fashion Retouching Sharpening

Jonas, yes you are correct. But that is where the Smart Sharpen Filter comes in. In advanced mode you can control how shaprpening effects shadows and highlights separately. You can control a threshold that defines whether or not a pixel is considered part of a shadow or highlight region, you can control the tonal range within the highlights and within the shadows which are sharpened or not, and you can selectively fade the sharpening effects to control halos in shadows independently of highlights.
On top of all this you have the blur removal algorithms - Gaussian Blur (used by USM filter), Lens Blur, and Motion Blur.
Frequency splitting is a very useful part of a workflow for a number of things but for me sharpening is not one of them, except for the odd time when I take advantage of a set of split layers which already are present in my workflow and happen to be at a radius value that satisfies some sharpening requirements for that image.
Thanks and regards, Murray
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