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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Automatic Skin Smoothing.

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  #161  
Old 11-07-2010, 06:26 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_W View Post
I guess Sean just changed the offset to show that it really doesn't matter because of the high pass that is invoked later (as long as the offset doesn't clip any values. That's why you would go with 64 when recording actions as this will never clip values).

P2P described the process of scripting the custom filter here: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?th...5#post14094943
But ShadowLight uses flash from what I've heard so I have no idea how different this would work.
As explained in details, there can NOT be clipping at all using SkinSmooth
at all!

the conditions for this to happen do not exist


no offence to everyone who comments on what I find "Challenging" but to comment on this you should understand what you talk about, and so far looks like programing for PS looks difficult for most of you.

the limitations come from the structure and flexibility that is offered at this stage of interaction with the software, it's not something that can be avoided...

re: custom filter, I'll look into what changing the order gives as a result, if it makes it better it will be possible to use it

Last edited by ShadowLight; 11-07-2010 at 06:37 AM.
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  #162  
Old 11-07-2010, 06:42 AM
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Der_W Der_W is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

I did not refer to clipping based on SkinSmooth but on the offset of the custom filter ;-).
E.g. use custom filter as explained, scale: 2, offset: 255. Of course applying the high pass afterwards will calculate with clipped values.
On the other hand if you're doing it with an offset that doesn't clip anything before the high pass is applied, the offset doesn't matter, because you're calculating the difference from the Gaussian blur (+128 fwiw), so whether the image is light or dark to begin with isn't important :-).

Sorry for having been not precise enough on this!
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  #163  
Old 11-07-2010, 06:52 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_W View Post
I did not refer to clipping based on SkinSmooth but on the offset of the custom filter ;-).
E.g. use custom filter as explained, scale: 2, offset: 255. Of course applying the high pass afterwards will calculate with clipped values.
On the other hand if you're doing it with an offset that doesn't clip anything before the high pass is applied, the offset doesn't matter, because you're calculating the difference from the Gaussian blur (+128 fwiw), so whether the image is light or dark to begin with isn't important :-).

Sorry for having been not precise enough on this!
yes, it's size to hp:r defines it
so it happens only when you have small image and big R
something like 400x600 and r:250 (and for the purpose of skin smoothing in this case the upper limit will be less than r:20)

anyway I will look in the order of the filters and if it works properly I'll make you a version with it.

although I still don't understand why when retouching skin you want to focus on the highlights other than the mid-tones... but I guess it's a personal choice, so if it works properly I'll make another separate version
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  #164  
Old 11-07-2010, 08:18 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

Ok... I think you should all do your own tests before saying some nonsense that I end up testing and turns out it's just a hole bunch of... lets say... hot air.

here is a test of the "custom filter", with the filter before and after the HP:
CustomFilter_test.psd

as you see when it's before the difference from c-50 if much bigger than Opacity50, and it is the same (99%) with Opacity50 when it is after.

So I did have the custom-filter in the right place, and unless I have the settings of the filter wrong (but I did use exactly the settings you requested), this way of lowering the contrast fails!

make something it actually works (test it in a PSD), post it, and it it's possible I'll implement it... but have some self-respect and test your stuff before making grand statements of what is "correct" and what has "errors".

Attached are the differences between "custom filter" and c-50 and the different positions of the filter.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CustomFilter_test-B4.jpg (62.8 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg CustomFilter_test-after.jpg (60.7 KB, 7 views)
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  #165  
Old 11-07-2010, 08:31 AM
bakerser bakerser is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

I may not have made clear what a proper filter stack for using the Custom filter looks like. Some folks have demonstrated understanding of that in side conversations, but so that we can eliminate any confusion, it should look like the image below. Any deviation from that is obviously going to give issues. If anyone would like to see a PSD, let me know and I'll put it up, but I think the image conveys it pretty well.

Sorry if I led anyone astray through poor explanation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CustomFilterStack.jpg (25.3 KB, 10 views)
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  #166  
Old 11-07-2010, 08:45 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerser View Post
I may not have made clear what a proper filter stack for using the Custom filter looks like. Some folks have demonstrated understanding of that in side conversations, but so that we can eliminate any confusion, it should look like the image below. Any deviation from that is obviously going to give issues. If anyone would like to see a PSD, let me know and I'll put it up, but I think the image conveys it pretty well.

Sorry if I led anyone astray through poor explanation.

The way you have your stack here you apply the custom filter AFTER the HP which by your words you try to avoid and you intend to do the opposite.

Anyway I tested both ways of stacking, before, and after the HP.

The way you show it, the result is 99% as Opacity50.
The way you intended (with Custom Filter before HP), the difference is much greater (to c-50).

again... please test your final results first.
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  #167  
Old 11-07-2010, 08:51 AM
bakerser bakerser is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
The way you have your stack here you apply the custom filter AFTER the HP which by your words you try to avoid and you intend to do the opposite.

Anyway I tested both ways of stacking, before, and after the HP.

The way you show it, the result is 99% as Opacity50.
The way you intended (with Custom Filter before HP), the difference is much greater (to c-50).

again... please test your final results first.
I know I said I wasn't going to reply to you, but... here's somewhere that I can hopefully get through, if only in some small way.

Please see Adobe's CS5 Reference Guide on Smart Filters, which states:
Quote:
The Adobe Photoshop Reference Guide states:

Photoshop applies Smart Filters from the bottom up.
And if I can't reach you with that, well, I'm hopeless.

[btw - please don't criticize the other members; they're here to learn, not to be abused. If you have angst which you need to work out here, please keep calling me a troll or elsewise, but leave the other folks alone, k?]
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  #168  
Old 11-07-2010, 09:22 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

either way, I tested both ways of stacking them

I'm getting tired of the "hot air" testing I end up doing just because "you say it works", a few people take our word for it, and say it is the "correct way".

As I pointed out 2-3 times now,
changing the stacking order does not make it better.

So this "learning" has just been misleading in many ways so far... form the "clipping" issue, that turns out that is not happening in reality, to the poor testing and general hot air...

again, if you (anyone) actually gets something working in a different way, try it in a PSD, make sure it works first and I'll see if it is implementable...

otherwise enough is enough.

Last edited by ShadowLight; 11-07-2010 at 09:58 AM.
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  #169  
Old 11-07-2010, 09:59 AM
bakerser bakerser is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

As has been suggested, please test everything you're being told for yourself. It'll be eye-opening. But, as I realize I've not posted a PSD containing the direct comparison of the Custom Filter method with the Apply Image technique, here it is. You can see the max 1/32k difference for yourself. Please ask questions if you have them. Cheers.

PSD
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  #170  
Old 11-07-2010, 10:06 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Automatic Skin Smoothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerser View Post
As has been suggested, please test everything you're being told for yourself. It'll be eye-opening. But, as I realize I've not posted a PSD containing the direct comparison of the Custom Filter method with the Apply Image technique, here it is. You can see the max 1/32k difference for yourself. Please ask questions if you have them. Cheers.

PSD
again.. you are not testing properly

here is the comparison of the actual result:
CustomFilter_test.psd

.. pfffff.... the end.
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