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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

RGB or CMYK?

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  #11  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:29 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by pixelzombie View Post
... they know the bulk of their work is going to a 4/c press..
Which 4 color press, running which paper? They are all different. Burning in retouch work in a highly device dependent color space is mightily inflexible. Now maybe this shop does this so that should another output be needed, they start from scratch (including retouching, proofs, etc). Its a great way to keep the profit margins up. But scan once, use many, an RGB approach is far more flexible. You can convert to any CMYK or other color model as often as you wish after all the retouch work. Putting the cart before the horse in terms of conversions is great when you charge by the hour and love doing the same work over and over again but its a prehistoric workflow by today’s standards.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2010, 03:53 PM
SilvaFox SilvaFox is offline
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
Putting the cart before the horse in terms of conversions is great when you charge by the hour and love doing the same work over and over again but its a prehistoric workflow by today’s standards.
I'm sorry. What does this mean? Correcting color in CMYK from a CMYK marked proof (inkjet) is prehistoric?
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2010, 03:56 PM
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by SilvaFox View Post
I'm sorry. What does this mean? Correcting color in CMYK from a CMYK marked proof (inkjet) is prehistoric?
Nope, correcting color based on one output device when multiple output needs may be required are prehistoric in terms of workflow. Or to put it another way, you fix the image for output A and all you output is to device A, fine. You try to send that to any other device, you’re in a world of hurt. Do the same in RGB, then convert to as many output devices as you wish to use. No pain here.
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:39 PM
pixelzombie pixelzombie is offline
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
Which 4 color press, running which paper? They are all different. Burning in retouch work in a highly device dependent color space is mightily inflexible. Now maybe this shop does this so that should another output be needed, they start from scratch (including retouching, proofs, etc). Its a great way to keep the profit margins up. But scan once, use many, an RGB approach is far more flexible. You can convert to any CMYK or other color model as often as you wish after all the retouch work. Putting the cart before the horse in terms of conversions is great when you charge by the hour and love doing the same work over and over again but its a prehistoric workflow by today’s standards.
it is prehistoric but it does work, the images get converted to their working space and the output profile takes care of the rest, i'm curious to hear what workflow you prefer...
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2010, 04:48 PM
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by pixelzombie View Post
it is prehistoric but it does work, the images get converted to their working space and the output profile takes care of the rest, i'm curious to hear what workflow you prefer...
What do you mean they get converted to their working space? They are in CMYK, that’s an output specific space (highly device dependent).

Don’t tell me someone is now going CMYK output to RGB working space? What’s worse than prehistoric?
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2010, 06:52 PM
pixelzombie pixelzombie is offline
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

i was referring to a CMYK working space...
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2010, 07:01 PM
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by pixelzombie View Post
i was referring to a CMYK working space...
A CMYK color space (working space if you will) is an output color space. A true, RGB working space (editing spaces) are output agnostic. They are archive color spaces. We edit in them, then convert to an output space as the need arises. One of the very last steps for a flexible color management workflow is the conversion to the output space such that all edits can be utilized as often as necessary without having an output condition forced upon them. If you edit in an RGB working space, you can convert as the last step as often as desired, the edits are not locked into an output color space condition.

RGB working space are also smaller in size, have a higher gamut and are often a higher bit depth. The only reason to retouch on a CMYK, output dependent color space is if someone forces this workflow onto you.
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  #18  
Old 10-13-2010, 06:51 AM
SilvaFox SilvaFox is offline
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

That was the OP's point. This sounds like a specific CMYK environment. That's what prePRESS is. What looks pretty in RGB has very little in common with dot percentages and ink on paper.

The only thing anyone needs from him is CMYK. "They" don't want RGB because they don't want to fix, (or pay him to fix) what is going to be out of gamut every time they convert to CMYK.

Besides, the OP could work in whatever mode he wants, as long as he submits (hopefully press ready) CMYK.

Cheers
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  #19  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:18 AM
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

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Originally Posted by SilvaFox View Post
That was the OP's point. This sounds like a specific CMYK environment. That's what prePRESS is.
The OP didn’t have a point, the OP had a question (Should it matter to the retouching house if I work in RGB or CMYK? You can always convert the mode - is it such a big deal?)

The answer is yes, it matters, its a big deal. The answer is, if the data is provided in CMYK and the output isn’t highly defined and fixed, AND if the OP alters color and tone, its very possible the OP will end up in a world of hurt when the press sheets come off the press with color and tone surprises! It has nothing to do with what looks pretty in RGB. RGB can become any CMYK variant at which time, it probably will not look “as pretty” but will reproduce as expected IF handled correctly. CMYK is a fixed color space for a very, very specific output. You can’t put that toothpaste back into the tube.

IF someone in prepress hands you output ready CMYK, sends the numbers to that specific device, you can retouch till the cows come home and everything should be fine. If however the numbers are intended for more than one device, all bets are off. You’ve burned the retouch work into a document that is solely intended for one print condition, period. That’s a highly inflexible workflow but great if you are charging customers for multiple retouch, press work (or you know for sure, the print job will only go to one device forever).

Quote:
The only thing anyone needs from him is CMYK. "They" don't want RGB because they don't want to fix, (or pay him to fix) what is going to be out of gamut every time they convert to CMYK.
That was specified by the OP where? The OP said “Images are coming in RGB. Of course conversion is done to optimize images for print, but not at the end - first step before retouching is to convert RGB image to CMYK. I'm trying to find the reason, if there is any.“

As for out of gamut, that’s exactly why work that is to be repurposed should be in RGB because every CMYK space has a differing gamut that can be optimized during the conversion.

Quote:
Besides, the OP could work in whatever mode he wants, as long as he submits (hopefully press ready) CMYK.
The key word here is hopefully. The part that is totally vague in the above is “press ready”. Press ready for what type of press, ink, paper, press conditions etc? They are all vastly different.

In the end, the OP has to provide what the customer wants but that doesn’t mean the OP shouldn’t understand the ramifications of an inflexible CMYK workflow. Again, if the prepress house wants to lock the retouch work into a one time usable file, that’s fine. It doesn’t make it a modern nor flexible workflow and now the OP knows why.
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2010, 10:52 AM
SilvaFox SilvaFox is offline
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Re: RGB or CMYK?

Was there a problem with me saying "Cheers" at the end? You didn't comment.
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