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can you retouch with a mouse?

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  #41  
Old 11-11-2011, 09:25 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

I have an Intuos 4 at home, to replace my intuos 1. I use an Intuos 3 at work.

I actually prefer the 3 to the 4.

Really, for me, even the 1 was fine as far as sensitivity, etc, but it had a flimsy pen. The thicker pens of the 3 & 4 are much more comfortable for extended use.

Don't know the pens of the bamboo, only that a good one is worth paying more for. Added sensitivity was not worthwhile, however, for my usage.
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  #42  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:16 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEP Studios View Post
I use nothing but a regular old mouse.

Never tried a tablet, I'm sure I'd like it. But in answer to mattp's question: Yes, you absolutely can retouch with a mouse.
If you've never tried it, and I mean really tried it, not just played around a few minutes, it's completely different. With either you need an appropriate size, and it needs to be set up correctly. Mice can have mapping speeds adjusted and should feel smooth. With a tablet if you're using a small one to cover a 27" screen, it'll feel terrible. If you're using it with a reasonable mapping ratio, it can feel much more natural for people used to drawing on paper . I don't always use the pressure sensitivity because I've always had trouble calibrating it to my liking. The maximum pressure settings involve pressing it really hard for fine work. They keep adding further divisions, but it's tough for me to get it just right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray12 View Post
Many professional retouchers here in NYC use a mouse all day.

Its up to your preferences in the end...im just saying that the high end pros have no issues with low opacity mousing.
You use some really high brush settings. The thing about a mouse is that it's a weird motion. It absolutely does not require lower painting opacities. You could use the same ones used with a pen if you set sensible mapping settings. Even like this I don't care for it. If it means you have to go over the same area many more times, then that's a terrible hit to efficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
I have an Intuos 4 at home, to replace my intuos 1. I use an Intuos 3 at work.

I actually prefer the 3 to the 4.

Really, for me, even the 1 was fine as far as sensitivity, etc, but it had a flimsy pen. The thicker pens of the 3 & 4 are much more comfortable for extended use.

Don't know the pens of the bamboo, only that a good one is worth paying more for. Added sensitivity was not worthwhile, however, for my usage.
The pressure functions are difficult to set up really well. It can take some time. I agree with you that if you're using it a lot, a good pen helps a lot. The intuos line offers much larger tablets. In most shops focused on this kind of work the intuos 3 or 4 large is the most popular. The smaller ones are too jumpy. You move the pen a quarter inch and the cursor moves an inch with larger displays. That just sucks. I use a large and I taper down the screen area it is mapped to somewhat.
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2011, 04:24 AM
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DadanY DadanY is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

my opinion it's better to use a tablet,mouse always slows me down
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  #44  
Old 11-13-2011, 01:50 PM
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AKMac AKMac is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

I totally disagree with the idea that you need a big tablet. The physical size of the screen is irrelevant (apart from the fact that you are able to zoom in and out of an image while retouching, the viewing distance from the screen varies anyway) In my opinion/experience the most important consideration regarding the size of the tablet is that it should allow you to work comfortably. I personally prefer A5 set to full screen ratio. This allows me to work without unnecessary arm movement, very much using the same hand/wrist movements you would use in drawing on a sheet of A5 paper. The smaller tablet takes up less work surface space and is easily reorientated or used on your knee. It is easily packed for transporting and costs a lot less than the big ones.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:30 PM
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shift studio shift studio is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

one thing that surprises me is that everyone says the tablet is (aways) mapped 1:1 to your entire display(s).
I've always used the Wacom Mapping/Mode preference set to 'Mouse', so where I set my pen down on the tablet is where I start working from ... much less arm movement this way, and I suppose another case for a smaller tablet (for a retoucher rather that a painter/drawer)

Just thought I'd point that out, not saying its good or bad.

--shift studio.
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:01 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

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Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
This allows me to work without unnecessary arm movement, very much using the same hand/wrist movements you would use in drawing on a sheet of A5 paper. The smaller tablet takes up less work surface space and is easily reorientated or used on your knee. It is easily packed for transporting and costs a lot less than the big ones.
They are cheaper, but it's around a $200 difference between the small and large, and I use them many hours a day for years in between upgrades. Software, computer upgrades, and displays make that look like nothing. Using it on my knee would drive me mad. I don't move my arm as much as you'd think. If I'm drastically changing working area, I am panning it around to center the area I wish to work on. I wouldn't be able to use a small tablet stretched across a 24" screen. I'd have to go with mouse mode like shift studio posted, but I'd probably set my mapping lower than his.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift studio View Post
one thing that surprises me is that everyone says the tablet is (aways) mapped 1:1 to your entire display(s).
I've always used the Wacom Mapping/Mode preference set to 'Mouse', so where I set my pen down on the tablet is where I start working from ... much less arm movement this way, and I suppose another case for a smaller tablet (for a retoucher rather that a painter/drawer)

Just thought I'd point that out, not saying its good or bad.

--shift studio.
It's one way to do it. I like to be able to do things by feel to a degree. Having movement on tablet too disjointed from movement on screen is just sooo annoying. Even if I'm zoomed in it just feels weird.
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:53 PM
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AKMac AKMac is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

Kav, Why would you need to go into mouse mode with a small tablet "stretched across a 24" screen"? I don't see why you would need to do that.
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:10 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

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Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
Kav, Why would you need to go into mouse mode with a small tablet "stretched across a 24" screen"? I don't see why you would need to do that.
I can explain that. Say your screen is 24". Wider screens and larger sizes in general have basically become the norm if you're looking for quality display hardware. Anyway with a small tablet matched to one, a small movement of the wrist translates to a much greater movement on screen. I find it difficult to work when I need to translate my own movement to a small fraction of what will become the stroke size on screen.

I was saying the method of the other user (going to mouse mode) would work as a workaround there because you can manually control the mapping speed while still having the feel of a pen. This means you can get something closer to 1:1 mapping but you would have to pick up the pen quite a bit to navigate across a large portion of the screen.

Mice are really awkward for me. I have a method for testing out tablet/display combinations and settings. I use things that are exceptionally easy to write or draw on paper including a signature, printed words, drawing circles and other shapes, etc. If I feel the settings are pretty close to a comfortable match, I practice a bit of freehand drawing in photoshop. If these things don't feel natural to me, it messes with my efficiency in retouching to an unacceptable level. Budgets and stuff haven't been so great the past couple years, so efficiency is a massive concern for me. It has to feel right. Just zooming in doesn't totally fix the problem for me. I like to be able to gauge as much as possible by feel how much I'll need to move something. I click layers on and off every few minutes and make snapshots just to be sure it's going in the right direction. It's really detailed stuff.
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  #49  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:54 PM
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shift studio shift studio is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kav View Post
... but you would have to pick up the pen quite a bit to navigate across a large portion of the screen.
...
Not actually true - I have a 30" display and 23" display for a total width of 2560px+1920px = 4480px
I have the mouse 'Tracking Speed' set to just one stop closer to fast in OSX's Mouse system preference, and I move all the way across the 4480 px with the flick of my wrist - no picking up the pen at all.

I know everyone is gonna have there preference, but for me, I have no problem moving around 'blind' even if the mapping is disjointed.
and I love the non-1:1 freedom.

--shift studio.
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  #50  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:17 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: can you retouch with a mouse?

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Originally Posted by shift studio View Post
I have the mouse 'Tracking Speed' set to just one stop closer to fast in OSX's Mouse system preference, and I move all the way across the 4480 px with the flick of my wrist - no picking up the pen at all.
I couldn't work like that. I need the ability to move it over just a few pixels. When I went from a medium tablet to a larger one (years ago) and aggressively controlled the mapping, I found way fewer things that required correction in the work when doing the click on/off test on retouching layers. With loose mapping it was just too easy for me to go over my mark by a very small amount. Too many of these kinds of errors over the course of an image meant a lot of cleanup of the work. I can't say I'm not jealous that you're able to work that way.
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