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Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

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  #11  
Old 11-21-2010, 11:13 PM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

Aaaaaaah, it clicked! thanks, now it makes sense, oh my, no wounder my H/S affected everything, should have payed attention to use the D&B mask.

Then, this brings another question if I may. Say, some area might have more D (or B) than others, the H/S layer might not affect them as much as the rest of the D&B. I gather using soft brush @lower opacity "inside" the mask will increase/decrease the effect of the H/S adjustment and evens out everything, yes/no?

Thanks
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2010, 12:01 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

Aladdin, yes. If you think about it, the more you D (or B) the greater will be the shift in saturation. But those areas on the mask will be more white which will allow the Hue/Sat adj layer to have a stronger effect and therefore a greater correction than the areas that were lightly D (or B) which have more opaque areas on the mask thus preventing the Hue/Sat adj layer from shifting as much. The relationship is pretty much linear.
Regards, Murray
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2010, 12:27 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

Makes sense, makes a lot of sense, come to think of it, yea, too bad I don't think on my own.

Thank you so much Murry, I really appreciate the enlightenment.
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:37 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

Ikiri, this should work as long as you don't change the base layer's blending mode (otherwise you'd have to uncheck the "Blend clipped layers as groups" in the advanced blending options of the base layer) and I'd actually prefer that for direct results (which can then be further masked if needed).

Personally I rather paint with slightly colored brushes on my "Soft Light"/"Linear Light" layer, as I find this easier/faster.
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:58 AM
Ikiri Ikiri is offline
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

I think I'll run some "pixel peeping" experiments on the whole brightness/saturation issue when I get time. Measuring "before and after" D&B hue and saturation levels (1px color picker).
Would be interested how much a saturation change there is between a skin pore & its surrounding area.

Jonas: colored brushes might seem easier/faster –*but it's a less accurate & more 'destructive' way of doing it I guess. H&S layer to me seems far more accurate –*as Murray explained in his last post.

Still, good to know different techniques –*Different jobs (print/web use) & the customer's wallet demand different approaches.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2010, 08:23 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikiri View Post
I think I'll run some "pixel peeping" experiments on the whole brightness/saturation issue when I get time. Measuring "before and after" D&B hue and saturation levels (1px color picker).
Would be interested how much a saturation change there is between a skin pore & its surrounding area.

The amount of saturation shift will depend on how much the dark pore has been dodged and what brightness level it was prior to dodging

Jonas: colored brushes might seem easier/faster –*but it's a less accurate & more 'destructive' way of doing it I guess. H&S layer to me seems far more accurate –*as Murray explained in his last post.

Actually, I do not use a Hue/Sat adj layer to make corrections. I add a blank layer set to color blend mode and paint with a soft brush. There are a number of reasons.
- I do not find the Hue/Sat layer accurate enough. On many images the single saturation adj does not correct all of the dodged /burned areas as required.
- Getting the D / B areas to the exact brightness level you want allows not only correction of the color to adjacent good skin but allows a complete change of color if the adjacent skin color is not correct to begin with or for some creative effect you want to modify it.
- When you paint on a color correction layer, you do NOT need to go over every spot that has been d or b. Sometimes no correction is required but when it is req'd large areas can be colored with a singe brush stroke. It is precisely accurate and very fast.


Still, good to know different techniques –*Different jobs (print/web use) & the customer's wallet demand different approaches.
True. There are many ways to do D&B and still achieve the same results. After experimenting each person discovers which method is best or most effective for him/her

Regards, Murray

Last edited by mistermonday; 11-22-2010 at 08:39 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2010, 08:44 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

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Originally Posted by mistermonday View Post
Aladdin, dodging and burning causes saturation of the affected areas to decrease or increase. One way to correct for those shifts is to add two Hue/Sat adj layers - one to correct for the dodging and another to correct for the burning. You hold down the Alt key and Drag the layer mask which is on the D or B layer onto the Hue / Sat adj layer. A dialog will appear asking you if you want to replace the mask and you choose Yes. You then adjust the Saturation slider until the color of the dodged or burned areas matches the good skin color. Using the masks from the D and B layers means that the saturation correction is only applied to those areas which you have dodged or burned - nowhere else.
Regards, Murray
If you clip the adj layers you don't need to drag the mask afterward and you can see the effect applied WHILE you're D&Bing.

x
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2010, 08:47 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

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Originally Posted by Ikiri View Post
Murray/Natalie,
Why have the same mask applied to the H&S layer? Wouldn't it be enough to clip/link the H&S layer to the dodge (respective: burn) layer?
I've posted the image of my layers

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...53.44933971106

see? Clipped :/
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2010, 08:50 AM
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

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Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
Natalia, I have your DVD and the Hue/Sat step is the only one I could not figure out what is exactly you wanted to do or put differently, what are you after? Your explanation above is impressive and convincing, but then again, how to apply it? what are you after?
OK, I am not looking for recipe here but I would like, if you please, to understand how to use Hue/Sat within the D&B context. I mean, do you limit your adjustment to the "Lightness" slider in "Master" mode? again, I am not after exact numbers and figures, just the philosophy of what to do.

Thanks
It depends on the image. Sometimes I desaturate the master a bit, others I desaturate and take the hue of the reds a bit to green, others I adjust the hue using the same curve... it really depends on the image and the effect I'm looking for.

I can't tell you what to look for or how it looks good, developing an eye for color is the most important part of retouching and it can't be tough with words.

2 cents
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Ikiri Ikiri is offline
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Re: Dodge & Burn (Layer blending modes)

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Originally Posted by Godmother View Post
I've posted the image of my layers

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...53.44933971106

see? Clipped :/
I know, I've noticed that. But it's still got a layer mask attached. Anyway – I guess I was more referring to Murrays "alt+click & drag layermask".
More layer masks = more memory

To keep the layer palette sort of 'short', one could also:
1) Set up two Layer Sets (one 'Dodge' and one 'Burn'), which contain the respective curves adjustment layers (WITHOUT layer mask)
2) Add whatever Hue/Sat layer (or Selective color,...) into the respective Layer Set (again with NO mask)
3) Add the mask to the actual Layer Set

Then collapse the Layer Set so everything is a bit more accesible / less confusing.
Depending on the job, I sometimes do this for work with lots of different comp elements.
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