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D & B? I am struggling to believe this

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  #1  
Old 01-06-2011, 04:02 AM
fraiseap fraiseap is offline
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D & B? I am struggling to believe this

I know I am going to get flamed for this but, what the hell!

First, I am not a retoucher, I am a photographer. Also I know that my attempts at retouching are amatuerish compared to some of the experts here (who I have a lot of respect for). Having said that I must admit to some confusion.

I have read a lot about "there are no shot cuts", "degrunge is not suitable for high end work", "proper retouching involves hours of D & B at pixel level" etc etc. However, when I look at beauty shots in magazines such as Vogue I honestly can't believe that the results can be obtained by D&B alone. I have attached an example from an Estee Lauder campaign (and they have the money to pay for hours of pixel level retouching). Sorry it is not a large file but flicking through any fashion mag will give you dozens of similar examples.

To my eyes this looks like smoothing with reintroduction of texture. Or am I being terribly naive?
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File Type: jpg Estee Lauder.jpg (37.6 KB, 583 views)
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:25 AM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

We are able to count famous photographers and retouchers but what about art directors? Unfortunately Alexey Brodovitch is not among us anymore ...
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:29 AM
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Greg Curran Greg Curran is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

some companies think the smoothing technique looks good, I personally use a lot of the D&B and some smoothing, it depends on what the client wants.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:17 AM
fraiseap fraiseap is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativeretouch View Post
We are able to count famous photographers and retouchers but what about art directors? Unfortunately Alexey Brodovitch is not among us anymore ...

Sorry, I am not sure I understand your point. Could you elaborate?
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:24 AM
fraiseap fraiseap is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
some companies think the smoothing technique looks good, I personally use a lot of the D&B and some smoothing, it depends on what the client wants.
Sure, I agree. But, flicking through the January Edition of Vogue UK I notice the following campaigns use images with practically no skin texture.

Dior, Chanel, Van Clef & Arpels, Dolce and Gabbana, Burberry, Prada, Miu Miu.

So it seems to me that the big spenders in fashion and beauty want images that have been retouched (using blur?) to the point of being unreal.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:43 AM
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4personnen 4personnen is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

Quote:
So it seems to me that the big spenders in fashion and beauty want images that have been retouched (using blur?) to the point of being unreal.
because realism is not perfect enough?
I really think that, as times go by, the techniques are more and more "perfect" in their realism. So agencies wants whiter than white, more perfect than the perfection, it will go worse and worse.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:46 AM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraiseap View Post
Sorry, I am not sure I understand your point. Could you elaborate?

Sure

From my point of view the client is hiring an advert company which employees an art director. The art director is the person who is responsible for the final look of the advert. The final word has a client of course but the art director is the person who talks to the artist ...

Alexey Brodovitch http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/meda...exeybrodovitch

is the guy who is responsible for modern look of all magazines. He set up the "modern rules" for commercial graphic design & typography.

He brought us photographers as
Richard Avedon http://www.richardavedon.com/
& Irving Penn http://shortlink.ca/Hj
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:33 AM
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Godmother Godmother is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

Do your images look like that when you blur them?

X
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:54 AM
fraiseap fraiseap is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

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Originally Posted by Godmother View Post
Do your images look like that when you blur them?

X
Well, I am not talking about blur alone, I am talking about blurring and reintroducing texture.

Also, I am not as good at photography or lighting as the photographers who work for Dior, nor am I anywhere near as good at retouching as whoever did the shots I am thinking of. But here are a couple of my images - you all probably think they stink but I think the effect is similar to that which appears in many beauty adverts.

Now I am going to get flamed!
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File Type: jpg Iskra.jpg (21.1 KB, 311 views)
File Type: jpg Iskra2.jpg (25.7 KB, 321 views)
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:54 AM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: D & B? I am struggling to believe this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmother View Post
Do your images look like that when you blur them?

X
Natalia, your post follows my but I was not talking about any kind of blur. Could you point the person you are talking to, please?

But I have a question for you which I have on my mind:

If you use a frequency separation and you will touch a HP layer so your GB layer will come through - do you blur the picture?

I think the most important thing is the final look of the image - this is the reason why I have mentioned art directors as we are talking about advert campaign.
Thanx

Filip
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