Demystification of Mert & Marcus

[jbedford]

Hi everyone,

I've been searching the Internet for a year or two, trying to find some information on the post production techniques of the white-hot fashion photo duo, Mert Alas & Marcus Piggott. Seems all I find is a New Yorker article from 2004 and a few speculations from other fans.

Does anyone here have some technical information (beyond having great models, gear, and an A-1 team) that could help me achieve their bright, plastic, punchy-colored look? Anyone on here worked on their images before?

http://fashiongonerogue.com/gisele-b...us/#more-48072

[leo958]

i too have been searching. does anyone have a clue?

[skydog]

Looks more like good photography and lighting than retouching...

[K.C.]

I would agree. I looks like it's shot on film with hard light in a style that creates high contrast and saturation.

[Jason Dulin]

I agree with you guys. Looks like film and if that is the case, it could be mostly if not all a chemical process. I really like the blues in the shadows. Makes killer separation between the model and the wall behind her.

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by K.C.

I would agree. I looks like it's shot on film with hard light in a style that creates high contrast and saturation.

Interesting...What was the 'film' giveaway? I've seen them shoot before and they use medium format but am pretty sure they've got the digi-backs.

I know the light source appears to be just one strobe with a reflector, grid, and maybe a thinly-opaque gel...Certainly contributes to the 'punch' of the image. The colors in 90% of their shots just pop...could be that comes from favoring hard light over soft, but even so...I need to know the details...I'll wait patiently, but won't hold my breath for answers.

Still waiting for absolute technicalities re: post-technique...Getting close through experimentation...

[mistermonday]

IMO, there is definitely a lot of post processing. Highlights typically do not fall on the subject in the patterns shown and I would bet there is a lot of manual dodging. The images, especially in the shadows, appear to have undergone some split toning as the colors and distribution of them appear very representative of split toning.
Regards, Murray

[jbedford]

thanks all...still no real info on absolute post techniques for skin tone and color popping (etc...) but heres hoping...

@mrmonday - I see that split toning too...I achieve this well either with camera raw or via selective color in PS. thanks

Another example of their 'look'
http://www.lelook.eu/post-lfxb_razzmatazz-346-547.html

[franko60]

The style is redolent of Uwe Ommer although I'm not sure he would have overworked the skin to make a beautiful girl look like a store window dummy. Whether film or digital who can tell - if you know what you're doing as a photographer you can make digital look like film and film look like digital (although film no longer has the resolution that high-end digital does). But the previous posters have it right - hard light (takes a particular type of face to take that kind of raw light), probably a focusing spot. On second thoughts, I think film is being used, judging by the colour shift in the shadows, but could be done intentionally in post.

Personally I don't like this at all. It's unthinking photography and doesn't require a great deal of photographic skill. But then, that's pretty true of many of the 'hot' young talents in photography today.

[leo958]

here's the behind the scene of the shoot:

http://youtu.be/7AgzbSGn3yc

[MacBurg]

The images look very digital to me, maybe the processing in photoshop to put blue into the blacks is reminiscent of certain older films, otherwise I don't see the distinct tonal range that film offers.

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by leo958

here's the behind the scene of the shoot:

http://youtu.be/7AgzbSGn3yc

Thanks for the link. As expected, they are shooting medium format (hasselblad i think), tethered, so there's no more need for speculation on whether it's film or digi.

Still, if there's anyone out there who has worked for these two before (in post), and can share some tricks, please do contribute to this thread.

Cheers

[Praha]

I remember saving a couple of images of Mert and Marcus' Miu Miu campaign with Katie Holmes, as reference photos, and the EXIF data was still in the files. Phase One P 45+ and this was about two years ago. Here are links to the images. I think the files came from their agent's blog or something like that.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...g/006fb6a6.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...g/006f6aec.jpg

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by Praha

I remember saving a couple of images of Mert and Marcus' Miu Miu campaign with Katie Holmes, as reference photos, and the EXIF data was still in the files. Phase One P 45+ and this was about two years ago. Here are links to the images. I think the files came from their agent's blog or something like that.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...g/006fb6a6.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...g/006f6aec.jpg

Thanks for the links to the photos, Praha. Nice to see that some of the info was indeed still embedded.

It seems like they use colored gels quite extensively for their strobes...Could be another reason the colors look so 'vivid'.

[tothepro]

Hi guys, really interested in that demystification! They are the best in fashion photography industry right now. They get the biggest house contracts.

I have read an article on them, I think named A day with Mert & Marcus.

I can assure you that they do all their work on digital - Actually they do retouch their own photos themselves. They choose the best models that they direct to do the required position. What I love about them is that they have great aesthetics but most of the times the models look overdone and too cold, in a sense, no expressions. It's all too calculated.

I'll try to search for the link. I think it's a 5-6 page article

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by tothepro

I have read an article on them, I think named A day with Mert & Marcus.

I can assure you that they do all their work on digital - Actually they do retouch their own photos themselves.

I'll try to search for the link. I think it's a 5-6 page article

Read all the posts first...What you're suggesting is the article I cited at the beginning of this thread...The article is from 2004 from the New Yorker. I can guarantee you that they do not do all or any of their retouches, especially when their doing 8-10 campaigns per season. What the article 'shows' is them making rough 'sketches' with Photoshop to give their retouchers an idea of the final look they're trying to achieve.

[jbedford]

bump...(gotta keep it fresh).

New cover for Industrie magazine...A self portrait of the duo themselves. I don't get this magazine where I live (presumably)...If anyone finds it, please include a link to an article (not that I imagine they will divulge their retouching secrets within the pages of the aforementioned magazine, but hey, here's hoping

[leo958]

here's something I found, hope this helps

before: http://www.modelinia.com/_content/sl...awford-eve.png

after: http://s4.postimage.org/pde6dlckr/Si...FW_2010_02.jpg

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by leo958

here's something I found, hope this helps

before: http://www.modelinia.com/_content/sl...awford-eve.png

after: http://s4.postimage.org/pde6dlckr/Si...FW_2010_02.jpg

Interesting...I'm not sure what to make of this...The 'original' certainly looks un-retouched, but color toned. I wonder if this was a final or a leaked 'rough' copy. The second 'retouched' version looks like it was made from the 'original', but the color looks over saturated.

thanks for the post...

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by leo958

here's something I found, hope this helps

before: http://www.modelinia.com/_content/sl...awford-eve.png

after: http://s4.postimage.org/pde6dlckr/Si...FW_2010_02.jpg

Behind the scenes video from the shoot linked above...

http://youtu.be/qJz4LYeDjzI

[Praha]

They're shooting with kinoflos in that video, fwiw.

[sehmuzb]

Originally Posted by jbedford

Interesting...I'm not sure what to make of this...The 'original' certainly looks un-retouched, but color toned. I wonder if this was a final or a leaked 'rough' copy. The second 'retouched' version looks like it was made from the 'original', but the color looks over saturated.

thanks for the post...

Wow, I am not sure how this got out. The first photo is either some interim version or these guys are lighting wizards (which is probably true).

The final version looks like a film conversion - saturated colors, contrasty film curve, grain, magenta/blue in the shadows and cream in the highlights. It is not super hard to do.

-sehmuzb

[jbedford]

it seems like there are plenty of articles on other subjects and people via Industrie Magazine blog, but none on the cover story (Mert and Marcus)...Does anyone have a link to this article? None of the mag stores in my area carry it...thanks

[leo958]

Originally Posted by jbedford

it seems like there are plenty of articles on other subjects and people via Industrie Magazine blog, but none on the cover story (Mert and Marcus)...Does anyone have a link to this article? None of the mag stores in my area carry it...thanks

here you go,

http://forums.thefashionspot.com/sho...25&postcount=8
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/sho...33&postcount=9

[urban stylin]

I got to know of this forum through googling how to get the MM technique, being in fashion and photography i get to see alot of their work and still dont know how they do that colour separatin technique

[kav]

They probably processed it out at a cooler than average white balance for that skintone. It's not at all impossible to get that look from digital. The lips, belt, background elements, etc. were masked and adjusted separately. There are plenty of ways to do this. If you look at the insanely heavy shadows right beneath her, they point to the background being brought down significantly. I'm just mentioning all of this to give you guys an idea of where to start and what elements are heavily altered individually. I'm referring specifically to the set linked by the OP.

Edit: skin also isn't that high in contrast overall. If you get the white balance and exposure just right it's not that hard to tune. Looks like very large lighting/possible minor adjustment on the skin highlights.

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by kav

They probably processed it out at a cooler than average white balance for that skintone. It's not at all impossible to get that look from digital. The lips, belt, background elements, etc. were masked and adjusted separately. There are plenty of ways to do this. If you look at the insanely heavy shadows right beneath her, they point to the background being brought down significantly. I'm just mentioning all of this to give you guys an idea of where to start and what elements are heavily altered individually. I'm referring specifically to the set linked by the OP.

Edit: skin also isn't that high in contrast overall. If you get the white balance and exposure just right it's not that hard to tune. Looks like very large lighting/possible minor adjustment on the skin highlights.

Thanks for this...I think you're right about all the individual masking and such...I think the trick comes after years of experience, gauging a balance between the juxtaposition of colors and contrast. Obviously experience and personal aesthetic counts for something!

[ftp-Jeff]

I worked with them for a few years..... Nice guys, but they really are not of this world!
I trained one of their top retouchers too!

The main thing on all their jobs is....... Time.... No quick shortcuts there guys.

Jeff

[jbedford]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

I worked with them for a few years..... Nice guys, but they really are not of this world!
I trained one of their top retouchers too!

The main thing on all their jobs is....... Time.... No quick shortcuts there guys.

Jeff

Thanks for contributing to the discussion, Jeff. It's nice to find somebody who has actually worked for / with them before. I'm very interested in any resources that you might feel could be worth reading / watching with regards to their retouching technique.

Many thanks

[ftp-Jeff]

Here is a screen grab from my website. This was shot by them for Ghost. And I done all the retouching... Had to draw up the subtle background!
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...6/a252bfed.jpg