whats going on here? how?

[jaimiepeeters]

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...abewerking.jpg

I'm trying to figure out how they got the painty feel in the face.
Also all of the Erwin Olaf images have the same thing

www.erwinolaf.com

nobody has yet been able to tell me how this is done..
can anybody here?

[Aladdin]

the short answer is: Nothing there really, come to think of it, nothing special at all
the long answer: color & texture:
Color: nothing there that Selective color cant do, just play around, you may need to adjust blending mood and/or opacity. done
Texture: even more simple, it looks to me like that Nik guy smoothing using the clone tool or similar technique, I mean, you can use "smudge", very, very light, or some sort of controlled/painted "Gaussian bluer", but I would say any cheesy smoothing technique will do.

Post nice sized picture, I will show you how.

[jaimiepeeters]

OK
here is a full size 300dpi jpeg straight from a raw file
http://www.jaimiepeeters.nl/test.jpg

VERY curious how you mean smudging is done.

[jaimiepeeters]

here's another example too.. of Erwin Olaf.
enlarge the photo and you can see the 'painty' feel..

http://www.erwinolaf.com/#/portfolio...rtrait,_ruben/

[Aladdin]

Do I get the barging rights on the retouch? I would eventually use it in my retouch port, you will be given the credit as the photog of course. Yes/No?

[jaimiepeeters]

sounds nothing but fair Aladdin

[Boneappetit]

Hi Jaimie: I guess, what you are calling painty feel, could be done by shadows and highlights (or carving) using Dodge and Burn, part of the regular process of a retoucher...

[Flashtones]

Try the Portraiture plug in.

Here's a 100% view of a rather high dose.

Search on topics "degrunge" and "inverted high pass" for similar effect.

[Flashtones]

Of course the example images you posted have a lot more going on than just smoothed skin. The juxtaposition of smooth skin vs textured surroundings, and strong modeling to the light, being just a couple of cases in point.

[jaimiepeeters]

i tried the inverted high pass on another image and that did bring me alot closer. I dont think though that the example you're showing is what I'm after.

here's my result with inverted high pass.. does look a bit like my topic start image, but not exactly...:

www.jaimiepeeters.nl/danielle.jpg

[Flashtones]

Originally Posted by jaimiepeeters

i tried the inverted high pass on another image and that did bring me alot closer. I dont think though that the example you're showing is what I'm after.

here's my result with inverted high pass.. does look a bit like my topic start image, but not exactly...:

www.jaimiepeeters.nl/danielle.jpg

The lighting and posing, etc, is a lot more suitable in that image than the close crop, broadly lit, frontal facing one you provided.

Trying to get a similar look from a radically different point of departure is often a recipe for disappointment.

[jaimiepeeters]

Originally Posted by Flashtones

The lighting and posing, etc, is a lot more suitable in that image than the close crop, broadly lit, frontal facing one you provided.

Trying to get a similar look from a radically different point of departure is often a recipe for disappointment.

thats why I mentioned Erwin Olaf.. his pictures diverse a lot from well lit set ups to close ups and all have the same effect.. some more for your correctly noted reason.

[Aladdin]

Here we go : http://home.comcast.net/~ai007/retouch/test-effect.jpg

Please keep in mind:
1) no attempt was made to fix face contouring, eyes, stray hair and such
2) extraction for BG replacement is lousy. I had to fix the flare on the left side of the head-cover, always use gobos to hide the light from the lens.
3) basically, it is a quick & dirty job just to illustrate the concept
4) different people have different taste, this effect is part of an overall "style", this is how I would do it -color wise-, this is how I feel about this particular one

Of course if this is a paying job, I would have done better, I would not even spend the time if it was for me. This picture needs at least 3 more hours to come out right. I already spend 3. You know by now, retouching, or rather good retouch job, takes a lot of time. I like the concept though, if, in the future, I have the time, I will most definitely continue the work on it. The face needs a lot of contorting (D&B) - looks like your light was on axis with the subject face.

I hope this comes close enough to what you are looking for.

[jaimiepeeters]

hey Aladdin..

thanks for the quick n dirty result..
although I see where you're going with this, it still doesn't have that painty feel that i'm after.

Look at this section, the hand of an Erwin Olaf picture.. it looks drawn but its a photo:

www.jaimiepeeters.nl/hand.jpg

[Aladdin]

the painterly effect you see in the hand and every where else is the result of D&B.

I mentioned in my reply above that 3 hours worth of work still needed, also mentioned that no attempt at face contouring was made, implying that I did not do the D&B step which might take up to 2~3 hours , at least not as extensive as high-end D&B.

What he does is, he D&B the edges of whatever image he is working on, it is really more on the "burn" side, this is what gives the "painterly" looks.

There really is no magic there.

[jaimiepeeters]

so making the edges darker?? = burn

[tom60634]

I tried a tone mapping layer which I then blended into the background layer.

[tom60634]

With this edit I used the tonemapped layer with a blend to the original, but this time I decided to play the blue shawl,eye makeup and eyes against the blonde (yellow) hair and eyebrows.

[Aladdin]

Originally Posted by jaimiepeeters

so making the edges darker?? = burn

OK, I spent few quick minutes just to illustrate the idea, same link http://home.comcast.net/~ai007/retouch/test-effect.jpg

I did some burn, it is more obvious on the lower part of her face. If I will start all over again, I will smooth the skin even further and clean up the added "noise" you see by the lips.

Godmother will be so mad at my lousy D&B job - specially that I have her DVD. Sorry Godmother!

[Nasturtium]

Originally Posted by jaimiepeeters

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...abewerking.jpg

I'm trying to figure out how they got the painty feel in the face.
Also all of the Erwin Olaf images have the same thing

www.erwinolaf.com

nobody has yet been able to tell me how this is done..
can anybody here?

He uses a medium format camera with exquisite lighting. I saw his Dusk to Dawn exhibit (printed hyuge) and there was significant dodging and burning.

http://www.thefstopmag.com/?p=185

[vasiliskons]

Do you mean something like this ?
Large version here

If this matches what you want, tell me and I ll give you the work-flow .

[jaimiepeeters]

nope sorry.. that's not it.

[jaimiepeeters]

Originally Posted by Aladdin

OK, I spent few quick minutes just to illustrate the idea, same link http://home.comcast.net/~ai007/retouch/test-effect.jpg

I did some burn, it is more obvious on the lower part of her face. If I will start all over again, I will smooth the skin even further and clean up the added "noise" you see by the lips.

Godmother will be so mad at my lousy D&B job - specially that I have her DVD. Sorry Godmother!

when I enlarged this I see blurring and added noise
I never blur nor add noise.. I retouch on pixel level only

[Aladdin]

Originally Posted by jaimiepeeters

when I enlarged this I see blurring and added noise
I never blur nor add noise.. I retouch on pixel level only

I did not do real clean up as I mentioned before.

This type of retouch, is not high end in the sense that you are not doing Vogue style editing, you are creating specific look/style. to achieve this painterly look, you really have to smooth out the skin a lot. but then, you would kill the pores. to recreate the pores, you need to add a bit of "noise" -I did a lot- then, blur this noise, you end up with what looks like real skin.

[julianmarsalis]

Originally Posted by Aladdin

to recreate the pores, you need to add a bit of "noise" -I did a lot- then, blur this noise, you end up with what looks like real skin.

This never looks good to me at all always looks pretty fake.

[DJSoulglo]

So I dont have time to do perfect skin on this, but with that, it's mostly evening out the shadows and highlights and giving it all an even tone....

Try desaturating it, then putting some color back in with a gradient map. Also try a Hue/Sat on soft light, and experimen. Then do some DnB to make a more painterly shape to the face. Then you blend the BG color with the face color.

The trick with these things is not 1 step. It's a combo of LOADS of things, but most importantly do not try and mess with the actual texture of the skin. Even it out with some DnB, healing whatever, but do not blur it. It will get you nowhere quickly. Also the lighting on the face is painterly, that doesn't mean this needs to have a canvas texture added. Also adding noise to simulate texture in the skin???? Why not just use what was there already.

Not much time to do this, so here's just a lo-res, but it's getting in the right direction. Not there yet, a lot more color balancing and a lot of DnB to get the skin right.

Good luck.

[jaimiepeeters]

Originally Posted by DJSoulglo

Not much time to do this, so here's just a lo-res, but it's getting in the right direction. Not there yet, a lot more color balancing and a lot of DnB to get the skin right.

Good luck.

YEAH! you're the first and only to get close to the actual concept.
I hear ya on the evening out the highs and lows.. not sure what you mean with blend the background color with the facecolor.. you mean the wall color?

The one thing I noticed is that in those pictures there's never any black.. only dark tones of whats already there, and indeed more evened out.

Makes sense.

and trust me, I never use noise nor blur to ?create? texture. I only use whats there, copy and duplicate from another part of the skin to give something texture if needed.

I am curious to see though if you could fully retouch this image and show it to me in high res. Just to see the real end result of your techniques, which are actually almost exactly like mine although I never:

Try desaturating it, then putting some color back in with a gradient map. Also try a Hue/Sat on soft light, and experimen. Then do some DnB to make a more painterly shape to the face. Then you blend the BG color with the face color.

maybe you could elaborate on that too.

Thanks!

[sid_v]

I've used a combination of Pro Photoshop Actions to get the look you want:

Black Coffee- for the brown tone

Glamour Retouch- for the realistic smooth skin

Dodge & Burn- Slight painting of highlights

PD Sharpen- Sharpens like a painting

regards,
Sid

[jaimiepeeters]

sharpens like a painting? interesting to find out what thats all about

[DJSoulglo]

Originally Posted by jaimiepeeters

The one thing I noticed is that in those pictures there's never any black.. only dark tones of whats already there, and indeed more evened out.
I am curious to see though if you could fully retouch this image and show it to me in high res. Just to see the real end result of your techniques, which are actually almost exactly like mine although I never:

Try desaturating it, then putting some color back in with a gradient map. Also try a Hue/Sat on soft light, and experimen. Then do some DnB to make a more painterly shape to the face. Then you blend the BG color with the face color.

maybe you could elaborate on that too.

Thanks!

You're right the blacks are never completely black, which is why your picture isn't a great starting point, as it's very contrasty.

I'm afraid I don't have 10 hours right now to do a hi-res retouch, which I would need the RAW file for as well. I'm a little busy as it is You can give me the RAW and I can do it over the next little while, an hour here and there as time permits.

What I meant is, add a Hue/Sat adjustment layer, put it on soft light blending mode (try desat 100/light +50) and adjust the opacity. Experiment with it. I'm not sure I can elaborate on that, as it really is what I meant :P

Also desaturating the image should be quite clear.... then just add a Gradient map on color or overlay or something (again experimentation is key) and for the colors use some nice skin tones you want to see. For everything it's adjusting the opacity as well.

DnB if you don't know what that is, search the internet for dodging and burning or painting with light. Or search this board, plenty of info there.

And mostly in those images there's an overarching tone, something that ties it all together, so when I say blend the color of the face with the BG, I mean find a tone that ties it all together.