Hard to find good beauty retoucher ..

[sbourson]

Hi

it's my first time to post there about retouching. sorry for my poor english (i'm french and learn my poor english 25 yers ago)

i'm there to exchange about that question :

"what's good beauty retoucher ?"

i'm many time making exchang on my beauty test with some young retoucher for there portfolio but many time , it's not working.

Somes times , they change color of picture, change color of make up, work skin but not hair, work just face but not the hand and the body.

For me Beauty it's skin picture or / and make up picture, i have to shoot the make up and respect it. that's my subject not the model.

i'm meet to retoucher who didn't work picture on 16 bit or sometimes just put high pass effect on skin and when picture is big we see face hair ..

Beauty is the hardest work for retouch no ?

stéfan Bourson
http://www.sbourson.com

[edgework]

Well... yeah.

[hollymiller]

It is very difficult to understand retouching skin and takes many hours to create a image.

I would be interested in retouching a piece of work for you to add to my portfolio.

Please see my imagery and online portfolio for examples of my work, roll over the images to see before and after.

www.hollymiller.co.uk/retouching_portfolio_1

Kind Regards
Holly Miller

[4personnen]

Hello, I'm French as well for that matters.

I think the hardest thing is to find where to fit in. If you call for high-end beauty retouchers, I think you'll find the wannabees or the expensive ones. If you offer just TFP or port exposure or whatever, you'll find maybe just the former.

If I see "high end" somewhere I just don't think I fit in it. And when I do some retouching, I do hair, skin, clothes, background... and I barely change the colours (unless asked).

So, where do I fit in? I don't know.

Maybe the way you hire or simply "adress" people is the wrong one. Not a criticism per se. Just my two cents (pence, for me).


Everybody wants the top of the cream for their images (even the crappy thumbnail catalog images have to but cut-out by "talented, expert 20 years experience in Photoshop" people these days). OTOH: many people think they're the top of the cream. Misunderstanding....


Un portfolio qui tue comme celui la, tu ne devrais pas avoir trop de problemes a trouver quelqu'un? non? Beau travail!

[Pari Retouch]

If I was on your place, I would first ask to retoucher to see their port first, many people these days I see go on changing things making the image look overdone and they don't realize how bad it is, retouching is not about changing things.
First have a look on their port if you think they are fit for what you are looking then send them your images.

[sbourson]

problem is many time on BEAUTY we work for the make up .. or the hair and correct thinks is important but change isn't possible.
Holly i see your retouch , but all are more chromatique than skin and hair work. Me i don't want from retoucher to change my color exposure but just improve my picture with out that.

[garnet01]

Explain that you want them to improve the skin and keep it real. You need to find a retoucher that has worked in some retouching houses and knows the ropes. Because they know what to do they wont be cheap.

[Pari Retouch]

Originally Posted by garnet01

You need to find a retoucher that has worked in some retouching houses and knows the ropes.

Why do you think retouchers who have worked in retouching houses are good.
I remember when I was working in a retouching house my portfolio was shit and now when I'm independent my work is lot better than before. Mostly in retouching houses we don't have freedom, it's more mechanical most of the time.
In my opinion working with professional photographers is better for a retoucher as we get to know they need and in every project we get to know new things and strategies.

[garnet01]

Where did you work?

[studio7160]

Beauty retouching, done properly, at the level you are looking for, takes a long hours, anywhere from 4-8hrs per image.That's if your workflow is streamlined. When only offering tfp or permission to use in port, you will only get either 1. people that are trying to get to the level you are looking for, or if you look hard enough you will find 1-2 really good retouchers that will retouch 1-2 images for you, the problem is time, good retouchers are busy retouching for paying clients, photographers want also minimum of 4-6 and even 8-10 images retouched, and they are also in a hurry to submit the images. So anyone making a living of retouching can't collaborate and make a living at the same time, unless they don't care spending 24hrs a day in front of your computer.
And one more thing, include a brief with your images, if you are not, you are letting the retoucher's vision take over yours.
Just my 2 cents =)

[Godmother]

You worked with at least 2 excellent beauty retouchers. The proble is you don't want to pay for it - ever.

You can't keep working for trade for ever

Xx

[women'sdesk]

The photos on Stefan's site look like submissions/tests. If the photographer, model, makeup artist and stylists aren't being paid why should the retoucher? I think it's fine to ask for free work, provided you're taking photography that is good enough to be published. You shouldn't promise anything if you know you can't consistently shoot great work, but then again if someone sees your website and chooses to work with you then they are responsible for making their own choices. Good luck Stefan!

[ftp-Jeff]

4 to 8 hours... Some of the P&G work I have done in the past has taken weeks for one image! Ahh.. those were the days!

[toxic_snake]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

4 to 8 hours... Some of the P&G work I have done in the past has taken weeks for one image! Ahh.. those were the days!

what's P&G?

[ftp-Jeff]

Proctor and Gamble... Have a look at what they own.

[sbourson]

women's : when i ask for test , everyone is not paid. If i'm paid everyone is paid it's difference between test and job. i use test to test light, meet new talent .. and job is job

[Adrianr]

Sounds like you need to be giving your retouchers better markups and references. Tell them what you want cleaning, what you don't want touching, and give them a colour reference. Then they won't go missing the hair, changing the makeup and screwing the colour some way you don't want it.

It's not hard for you to process out a RAW and scribble some notes on it. Or include a text document with the delivered files outlining what you expressly do and do not want doing with the images.

Then when you find a good retoucher/company, stick with them.

[women'sdesk]

lol i don't think you understand my english. I was agreeing with you and saying that it is fine for you not to pay for retouching because the photos on your site just look like submissions/tests. Why don't you post raws for a retouching challenge? New retouchers are always looking for photos to work on, unlike us they don't do their own photography or have access to equipment. If one of them posts a result you like, you can give them more work later on

[PhiladelphiaPro]

Originally Posted by Godmother

You worked with at least 2 excellent beauty retouchers. The proble is you don't want to pay for it - ever.

You can't keep working for trade for ever

Xx

GM.. what would you consider a fair rate for retouching a beauty image? Do you have "standard rates" or do you set a rate after you've seen the image? I'm not talking about commercial clients. I ask because everyone is a retoucher now charging $10 or $15 for a retouch and a lot of them are no better than I am but because they oversaturate images or make the eyes look good, people seem to like it.

Thanks

[ftp-Jeff]

People that charge $10-$15 for an image are not retouchers.... They are people that have a copy of photoshop. Usually a unlicensed version at that. Known as SMUDGERS!

I have 3 cars... including a classic. I do a lot of maintainance on them... I am NOT a mechanic, and would never call myself one.

Sorry if this sounds cruel, but it is the truth. I have made my living as a retoucher since 1972. These smudgers are killing the art of retouching. Just mt 2c worth.

[women'sdesk]

People that charge $10-$15 for an image are not retouchers.... They are people that have a copy of photoshop. Usually a unlicensed version at that. Known as SMUDGERS!

I have 3 cars... including a classic. I do a lot of maintainance on them... I am NOT a mechanic, and would never call myself one.

Sorry if this sounds cruel, but it is the truth. I have made my living as a retoucher since 1972. These smudgers are killing the art of retouching. Just mt 2c worth.

If you produce work that clearly separates you from smudgers then you're not going to have a problem. Even if regular people think we are magicians who can create anything in ps with the click of a button and really have no idea about what goes on behind the scenes, surely they can still differentiate between retouchers and amateurs? If a retoucher is limited to good skin, hair, lighting etc and they boast no other skills then maybe they should be replaced by someone cheaper who does the exact same thing? Or maybe the client should learn to do their own skin, hair and lighting etc, it's not that difficult. lol xo

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by PhiladelphiaPro

GM.. what would you consider a fair rate for retouching a beauty image? Do you have "standard rates" or do you set a rate after you've seen the image? I'm not talking about commercial clients. I ask because everyone is a retoucher now charging $10 or $15 for a retouch and a lot of them are no better than I am but because they oversaturate images or make the eyes look good, people seem to like it.

Thanks

Maybe this can help you (I did a guest blog on the subject)

http://www.exposingfashion.com/2011/...ics-mkt-style/

Originally Posted by women'sdesk

If you produce work that clearly separates you from smudgers then you're not going to have a problem

+1

[ftp-Jeff]

So, how long is a piece of string? I charge $125 an hour....I don't have problems with that, nor do my clients....

[women'sdesk]

You only charge $125 freelance? Your work is great, are you charging less than similar retouchers in your area? xo

[ftp-Jeff]

No, About the same.... I do charge more for the agencies back in the UK.

[women'sdesk]

No, About the same.... I do charge more for the agencies back in the UK.

Just in canada... i think the average in my city is $60 - $150 p/hour and 500+ for anyone famous. I keep getting asked to freelance for the well known houses and agencies locally, even though I haven't actually worked for a retouching house before... It is a conundrum because I don't want paid work, just training. Maybe i should pay to train with someone or just assist them? You are always saying that it is better to train one on one, which do you think is the best?

[ftp-Jeff]

Yep... I have always trained people one on one.... It works really well. And they all seem to be doing well.

[Sergy Manko]

Originally Posted by Adrianr

Sounds like you need to be giving your retouchers better markups and references. Tell them what you want cleaning, what you don't want touching, and give them a colour reference. Then they won't go missing the hair, changing the makeup and screwing the colour some way you don't want it.

It's not hard for you to process out a RAW and scribble some notes on it. Or include a text document with the delivered files outlining what you expressly do and do not want doing with the images.

Then when you find a good retoucher/company, stick with them.

I think that's a good ideia.