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Smudging when using Frequency Separation

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  #11  
Old 12-21-2011, 09:06 AM
CKAJCA CKAJCA is offline
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

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  #12  
Old 12-21-2011, 09:21 AM
CKAJCA CKAJCA is offline
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

Apart from the orange/saturated skin colour I can also detect a slight grey colour as well!
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2011, 09:40 AM
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

Can you please also post a larger sample of the before. Your radius may not be optimized.
Regards, Murray
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2011, 10:00 AM
CKAJCA CKAJCA is offline
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

Here is a larger version of the Before
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2011, 10:25 AM
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

You do not need to use the Asych Freq Sep on this image. The regular freq sep works fine. I tried it on a nuber of areas and do not get any adverse affects or intensified color. Moreover much of your Before image is a good candidate for conventional Dodge & Burn.
What Radius did you use for the separation. I need to go offline for a few hours. I will check back later this afternoon.
Regards, Murray
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2011, 10:36 AM
CKAJCA CKAJCA is offline
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

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Originally Posted by mistermonday View Post
You do not need to use the Asych Freq Sep on this image. The regular freq sep works fine. I tried it on a nuber of areas and do not get any adverse affects or intensified color. Moreover much of your Before image is a good candidate for conventional Dodge & Burn.
What Radius did you use for the separation. I need to go offline for a few hours. I will check back later this afternoon.
Regards, Murray
I only used 3 on the Gaussian blur!
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2011, 10:56 AM
KTG KTG is offline
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

Murray,
I have found that trying to get the "right" frequency to be challenging sometimes. The rule of thumb, I believe, was to blur until the detail you want to save is blurred out. Is that how you determine the frequency choice? Also, in IHP, how do you make the choice for High Pass radius. I blur the area that I want to effect and use that radius for the High Pass radius. Of course, that will vary in the image. And often I will have two or three layers of IHP.

k
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2011, 02:04 PM
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

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Originally Posted by CKAJCA View Post
I only used 3 on the Gaussian blur!
I do not know the size / resolution of your original, but I would bet that 3 px radius is way to small. I would expect it to be 10 or higher.
Regards, Murray
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2011, 02:39 PM
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

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Originally Posted by KTG View Post
Murray,
I have found that trying to get the "right" frequency to be challenging sometimes. The rule of thumb, I believe, was to blur until the detail you want to save is blurred out. Is that how you determine the frequency choice? Also, in IHP, how do you make the choice for High Pass radius. I blur the area that I want to effect and use that radius for the High Pass radius. Of course, that will vary in the image. And often I will have two or three layers of IHP.

k
Yes, blur until the detail you wish to save is blurred. Actually it's the detail you wish to isolate because you may also want to repair it (with clone tool), or accentuate it or other.
For IHP, you are trying to create a 3rd band of edges whose radii cover the range between the top end of the fine detail edges and the lower end of the large radii edges. Because everything is inverted to obtain this band, the HF radius value is the one which would be what you would use for Gaussian Blur and the Gaussian Blur radius would be what you would normally use for High Pass. I have really two answers to your question regarding IHP because there are two primary uses of it.
1. If you are using IHP in a retouch to subtly soften harsh edge transitions of light to dark / dark to light, this is usually done at high radius. Your High Pass Radius would typically be 50 / 60/ 70 / 80 px. The GB radius would typically be 1/3 of the HP value. This is a reasonably good rule of thumb and pretty reliable.
2. If you are using IHP as a Degrunge technique to blur away small / medium textures, then the rule of 1/3 is wrong most of the time. Instead what you should do is do a Gaussian Blur backing down the radius until the detail you wish to keep almost reappears. You can see an example at an old tutorial at RP here: http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=213
Today, the plain old High Pass filter has fallen out of favor because it is inaccurate and has been replaced with the Apply Image technique but the concept of IHP is still a variant of Degrunge. The principles and math are still the same.
Regards, Murray
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2011, 11:20 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Smudging when using Frequency Separation

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Originally Posted by mistermonday View Post
Colin, while it does not look like it, there is a significant amount of color on the HF layer. Everything that is not gray is actually an edge of your chosen radius where the color contrast has been greatly intensified. By performing an asymetric frequency separation you will remove all of the color from the HF layer leaving all of the color on the LF layer but still retaining the integrity of the split layer. Here is a link describing how to make one:

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...on-method.html

Regards, Murray
Murray please do not take this personally, but you're making that needlessly complex. The technique being talked about here is no less inherently destructive than any other method of retouching. By duplicating so much stuff you're inflating your file size without getting much for it. You really do not need to split your image data into parts to achieve good results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKAJCA View Post
I am still very new to retouching but have found Frequency Separation for use when retouching to be extremely useful. I still have a problem that I do not know how to overcome. I am still getting smudging when cloning with a hard edge brush on the High layer. An example would be when trying to remove black flyaway hairs against skin at the point where the flyaway hair meets the main body of the hair. This is obviously an area of high contrast and even with the clone tool set to hard it is still smudging a bit. I suspect this is something to do with the fact that there is still a small amount of colour on the High layer.
Can anyone tell me if there is a way around this or how best to handle it.

Colin
Colin you're best off forgetting you ever read such a technique. It's quite easy to do this without the "split" technique. You can use clone lighten mode or a blank lighten layer to clone these out. There are also a couple ways to dodge them out for the really annoying ones. You just have to do it carefully, but anything that's giving you smudgy results is a waste of time. I went through a lot of these internet distributed techniques a decade or so ago. Trying to master cheap techniques is basically doing yourself a disservice. That one has one redeeming quality. You can extract relatively clean texture if you have to rebuild an area with really flat texture. For that it might work better than extracting via high pass.
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