Arm retouching help

[risenshine]

I am having a bit of trouble clean up this arm and not sure sure how to effectively clean it up - It looks simple but having problems more with the colour

this is where I am at the moment - I have used D&B with curves - the issues I see are the colours and saturation - the reds and greens hues are coming out

anyone have ideas? the only thing is I don't really want to do split frequency thing because well is it really needed?

http://i40.tinypic.com/15nw46a.jpg

[Sistagurl]

I would continue to use your D&B method but with the photo in B&W..
use a hue/sat layer with sat @ -100
then when you're done D&B .. take you hue/sat layer ..move the hue/sat slider to 0
use vibrance layer with the vibrance slider moved in the positive direction and the saturation slider moved in the negative direction.. to help with the saturation you see on the arm.. play with the settings.. then select colorize on your hue/sat layer and add a tone that matches the original skin color(on your hue/sat layer..play with the settings!)... that usually helps me.

[micireland]

Honestly... I can't see your problem.

[risenshine]

@Sistagurl - thanks for the suggestion - I did dodge and burn with a desat layer to help - will give the vibrance layer a go

@micireland its a colour and saturation issue which is really bugging me - if I can notice it I want it gone lol

more suggestions welcome

[edgework]

For something like this, curves are the best way to go. You take care of hue, luminosity and saturation in one adjustment layer.

I set a color sampler above the elbow, in a region of skin that looked clean, and another in the middle of a dirty area to the left of the elbow.

In a curve adjustment layer I plugged in the two numbers for each channel, input value from the smudge sampler, output value for the clean skin. Masked the layer and then painted white into it using the same technique for D & B. Soft brush, low opacity, pressure sensitive pen. The curves distribute the shift over the whole tonal range pulling bad color towards the good.

For remaining artifacts I used the healing brush. Neither D & B nor healing are effective when you need to shift things this dramatically. Targeted curves can get you much closer, close enough that either one will finish the job. Still not perfect; some streaking on the right side of the elbow, but like the rest of it, it's now easily fixed.

http://edgework.tripod.com/arm.jpg

[risenshine]

thanks edgework - really must get makeup to remember to do the arms in the first instance when I am shooting!

[kav]

Neither looks just right in color. You may have to do some manual cleanup, but to start you should try either curves or a small amount of -saturation clipped to your retouching layer. It can be quickly masked separately if necessary. There isn't a general rule here. How are you processing initially? Photoshop/lightroom seem to give more of these kinds of problems. If you go too contrasty on processing, these kinds of things are more prevalent.

[risenshine]

the first is raw as shot, cs4 camera raw, just want consistent color nothing over done

[kav]

I hate the way CS4 converts it. I like Capture One. If I was using photoshop I'd use custom settings if I was getting too many weird skin shifts. Anyway like I said there is absolutely no rule to this. You will most likely have to clip an adjustment layer to your retouching curve or whatever you are using that adjusts for this. The after version definitely picked up some redness. I'm not talking about overdone effects anyway. I just meant that I usually process a little on the soft side, and I avoid using things like S-curves for contrast as they cause weird issues.

[risenshine]

yeah there seem to be a slight colour shift when it is used, anyway this where I am now

still not quite there but a bit better?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2wclnrb.jpg

[kav]

It still shifts quite a bit. What are you applying to it? You should mention what you're doing in terms of retouching and adjustment. If it's nothing that affects color, then the profile is being incorrectly adjusted somewhere. I don't see how you'd get that from D&B curves.

[risenshine]

d&B on a grey layer,

- hue /sat to desat yellows and reds,

-selective colour add to yellows to red

-selective colour add red to yellows

- did what edgework suggested by targeting the best colour on arm and doing a curves adjustment

also trying to match it to the rest of the models skin

just might start again

[kav]

Grey layers suck. The reason they suck is that you can't clip color adjustment solely to the area that has received D&B work. You added too much red anyway. You need to be careful with this stuff. Things always look intimidating when the image has a lot of color shifts in various parts of the skin, but you can't just throw a bunch of selective color at them. Looking at the original, it needs only minor color adjustment. It does need something, but not so much. If you're using a grey layer, I'd suggest that you do it with a paintbrush tool so that you can clip stuff to the retouching. It seems like you're making this harder than it needs to be. That arm is deceptive. It may look quite rough initially, but it doesn't really need that much.

[risenshine]

yeah am over thinking it *sigh* i think the arm is dryer looking than the rest of the body which doesn't help

[kav]

Make a black fill layer and place it over the elbow so that you don't look at it. Stop trying to lighten/darken back and forth until the area appears smooth. That method doesn't work well, and it's not working here especially given the local contrast. You need to identify what you don't like there, and what you feel is making it look dry. If the link is true to the real image, it's just some minor lightening of small spots. The key is knowing how to approach it and being able to control your work. The retouched version to a degree added contrast and problems, yet you didn't really solve many of the initial problems.

Don't feel limited on brushes. Don't feel you must always use a soft brush. Keep in mind darkening areas via DB on a softlight layer can produce a grimy effect, and it can be bad. Really you should be able to identify some of the spots that need to be lightened to make it feel less dry. You should be checking to make sure the work is not bleeding over into other areas. You should only take it as far as needed. I'm looking at this and you also need to understand shadows better. You're treating them as one solid color, even though that defies the laws of physics. They aren't one color, and treating them as one produces bad results. You must really refine your painting technique. I suggest that you learn to draw and paint pictures in photoshop. If you have enough control to draw freehand in photoshop, this stuff becomes a lot easier, and it will help you recognize where you're lacking control. I can almost read the look of your layers just viewing the before/after.

[risenshine]

thanks Kav what I am seeing on the raw is the different tones in the skin
I will highlight what I think are the problem areas - my problem is mainly the elbow

[kav]

No problem man. I can tell you're annoyed by the elbow. That's why I suggested you hide it while working on the surrounding area. You just have to consider a bit of about how shadows work and a little about the anatomy of the area. This is actually a really easy thing to work on. It's just if you approach it in a bad manner, it can quickly become really difficult. Don't limit yourself to just a softlight approach. It's good to know other things as long as you don't end up with a hundred DB layers per image.

[risenshine]

if I had the budget I'd happily give it to someone els lol!
anyways this is what's bugging me - will attempt it by hiding the elbow

tell me if I am hitting the mark or am I still missing something

http://i42.tinypic.com/ws9w8m.jpg

[kav]

You're about right. You just have to be really gentle with it. Also if it's too light relative to the face, I'd darken it down a bit, but do it in a way that emphasizes the actual lighting. Your topmost circle borders part of the tricep, so it should retain some shape there. This is a common problem with arms. They can look rough and flat at the same time. I say not to go too high in contrast because it'll make the skin look rough, but you may want to taper the lighting a bit depending on how it looks as a whole. If the arm is lighter than the face, I'd start by darkening down the top of the arm a bit via a curve or something of that sort. to get it a bit closer to the lower arm. It doesn't have to be all exactly the same adjustment, but it should trend toward being darker.

[risenshine]

Ok
I think the following steps will help

1- remove skin spots and scars
2 - darken down arm
3 - add a bit of saturation? not a 100% on this

I have to go out now but will be back on it tomorrow with an update

thanks Kav!

[kav]

I wouldn't actually add saturation in the sense of a hue/saturation layer. If it's off in color, I'd just use an adjustment layer masked over that area at the end to match the color. Keep it simple though whether you're using selective color, curves, etc. Trying to pull yellows one way and reds another is making it overly complicated I'd just try to adjust once you've done your retouching.

[risenshine]

update:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2w2r1ib.png

still needs a bit of a tweak for sure

[kav]

Originally Posted by risenshine

update:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2w2r1ib.png

still needs a bit of a tweak for sure

That's not really how I'd do it. To a degree, I think you're adding too much contrast to it. I wouldn't add any contrast to the arm as a whole. I look at the unretouched, and every time you go to retouch it, you make the things you don't like stand out. Perhaps post a layered crop and I'll look at your layers? I don't think my comments are really helping like this .

[risenshine]

sent you a pm Kav,