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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Colour, Colour, Colour.

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  #21  
Old 03-10-2012, 05:21 PM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoku View Post
It's a matter of semantics. Since every file is made up of color channels, altering of the color values, for whatever purpose, is color correction. Whether you are trying to remove a tungsten color cast, or adding blue to the shadows as mentioned in the discourse about color "grading". It's all color correction. Knowing the tools in Photoshop well enough to do this yourself, without the auto sledgehammers called "plugins," will give you the best results because you will have all the control. I also recommend, "Photoshop LAB Color" by the same author. We were using LAB to do the things you are speaking of years before that book was published.
I meant that the book looks more like it is about getting the right white/black points, using channels to enhance contrast, rather than adding blue in shadows, or more creative colour adjustments.

Which actually raises a question.

How much creative freedom do professional retouchers get?
and should they get to do more than skin and colour balance?
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  #22  
Old 03-10-2012, 09:27 PM
Shoku Shoku is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

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Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
I meant that the book looks more like it is about getting the right white/black points, using channels to enhance contrast, rather than adding blue in shadows, or more creative colour adjustments.

Which actually raises a question.

How much creative freedom do professional retouchers get?
and should they get to do more than skin and colour balance?
Professional Photoshop discusses everything a professional retoucher should know. The LAB book expands on that info.

The amount of "freedom" depends on the job. Some requests are very specific, other jobs are very subjective. The more "creative" jobs also have guidelines, but allow the freedom to make adjustments based on how the end result will fit the needs of the client. We do much more than skin and color balance. The time spent on a job can vary greatly, and depends on not only what the client requests, but also how much they want to spend. Simple color balancing can be done in a matter of seconds for some jobs, and for these we often do the adjustment as a courtesy. But any gross changes are always approved first by the client.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2012, 12:42 AM
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ray12 ray12 is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Just a note: Every year or so...someone gets tired of the current fashion colors...and has to decide what color is this years fashion color. The designers all make extra money when you HAVE to buy different cuts and colors of clothes or makeup...just because some media person tells you so.

It used to be that perfect skin color was the vogue...the perfect exposure and the perfect skin color...people got tired of perfectly exposed and corrected images...so they invented something that was invented 20 years ago...Cross Color Processing.

Cross Color Processing is putting a yellow tint into the whites and a blue tint into the blacks...and maybe a magenta cast to the skin. Now in Vogue...you see all kinds of color tints and washes...and it all looks so modern and trendy...and artistic...compared to those of us who are shooting perfectly colored images. (Cross Color came from processing film in the wrong chemicals...and many people got really mad when their perfect pictures came back from the lab with yellow whites and magenta and blue tints ruining their perfectly shot images...now we think its art!)

The trend today is to use curve layers to introduce transparent washes and blends into the images you see...we think the photographer is an artistic genius...and we want to know why his vogue images look so different than ours. They dont...he shoots regular and then post processes in the color washes. You can do some of it with filters on the lens...but the way to get the greatest control and artistry is to do it with curve adjustment layers in post processing.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Finn Finn is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Hey all,

OP here. I went away for a few days and came back to a discussion on colour! This is great! And what's more it's not a discussion on the relative merits of tool A over tool B. I've clicked through to the links and it's already put me on a new direction and a new way of thinking about things. Good stuff.

@mikesavi - The link to phlearn.com is worth a look. Has anybody tried out his paid for pro videos?

@Shadowlight & @Shoku - I'm really interested in what you guys are talking about: the different ways to think about working with colour. The link to the Model Mayhem post was great, I've never come across an explanation of the process from the POV of a film colorist.

Keep the links coming, this is turning into a super post.

F
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  #25  
Old 03-13-2012, 03:06 PM
mcdronkz mcdronkz is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Finn, you may find this very interesting. He has written lots of free articles on color, and also made DVD's on color in photography and retouching. This guy really knows his stuff.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:57 AM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

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Originally Posted by amica999 View Post
I found this recommendation somewhere, but I can't figureout where..sorry, I'm old :-)

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Purple-Som...ews/0240806883

Some food for thoughts
you can read it online here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15795696/I...l-Storytelling
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2012, 01:38 PM
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amica999 amica999 is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

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Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
Lovely ShadowLight, I think I'll have a read. I went through it briefly on amazon and wrote a note to self to put it on the list :-)
Glad it caught your interest
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  #28  
Old 03-14-2012, 02:28 PM
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Tim Whitney Tim Whitney is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amica999 View Post
I found this recommendation somewhere, but I can't figureout where..sorry, I'm old :-)

http://www.amazon.com/Its-Purple-Som...ews/0240806883

Some food for thoughts
I have this book, too, and recommend it highly. I would also recommend having the movies on hand if you're not familiar with them as there aren't nearly enough reference images in the book.

I also feel that, while the Margulis books are required reading for anyone using Photoshop, they are definitely a lot more technical than creative.

Since you asked for a good book on Color Grading for film as well I recommend Color Correction Handbook by Alexis Van Hurkman:
http://www.amazon.com/Color-Correcti...1752759&sr=8-1

The creative stuff is at the end but the whole thing is worth reading. If you want to follow along you can even download a copy of Davinci Resolve Lite for free and learn color correction/grading on a completely different too set than Photoshop offers. The color wheels will teach you to see color in a very different way, and that's never a bad thing.

While you're at it check out his blog, too:
http://vanhurkman.com/wordpress/

Last edited by Tim Whitney; 03-14-2012 at 02:29 PM. Reason: typos
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  #29  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:03 PM
ShadowLight ShadowLight is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Whitney View Post
I have this book, too, and recommend it highly. I would also recommend having the movies on hand if you're not familiar with them as there aren't nearly enough reference images in the book.

I also feel that, while the Margulis books are required reading for anyone using Photoshop, they are definitely a lot more technical than creative.

Since you asked for a good book on Color Grading for film as well I recommend Color Correction Handbook by Alexis Van Hurkman:
http://www.amazon.com/Color-Correcti...1752759&sr=8-1

The creative stuff is at the end but the whole thing is worth reading. If you want to follow along you can even download a copy of Davinci Resolve Lite for free and learn color correction/grading on a completely different too set than Photoshop offers. The color wheels will teach you to see color in a very different way, and that's never a bad thing.

While you're at it check out his blog, too:
http://vanhurkman.com/wordpress/
that book is exactly what I was interested in!
thanks

although .. at a first glance...:
- somewhat disappointing the soft-grading products he references looks like are "FilmLight Baselight, Apple Color, DaVinci Resolve, ASSIMILATE SCRATCH"

... more of indie-film/TV - level than a movie production would use...
so... the top-end are missing... for example... no Lustre.


still, it looks like technical material on grading, extremely good background information
it even has a few "CREATIVE TECHNIQUES" in the end... like bleach-bypass, cross-processing ... (with not so good results) ... ok.. I'm smiling here.. as everyone here is at a lot more advanced level when it comes to "CREATIVE TECHNIQUES"
... it looks like the grading there is basically luma based,
but it still has a lot of information, solid technology background and where and what modifications are needed.

so it feels like grading you would be doing in a media/broadcast studio...
(so far I didn't see how to choose and setup "rooms" for movie/scenes for example)
.. you won't get the grading of the movie "Hugo" from here...

however that was just a quick look through it (maybe I'm missing something),
but still for me it's very interesting.
(there are some versions online, so you can take a look at it too)

thanks again.

Last edited by ShadowLight; 03-14-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:17 PM
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Tim Whitney Tim Whitney is offline
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Re: Colour, Colour, Colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post
that book is exactly what I was interested in!
thanks

although .. at a first glance...:
- somewhat disappointing the soft-grading products he references looks like are "FilmLight Baselight, Apple Color, DaVinci Resolve, ASSIMILATE SCRATCH"

... more of indie-film/TV - level than a movie production would use...
so... the top-end are missing... for example... no Lustre.


still, it looks like technical material on grading, extremely good background information
it even has a few "CREATIVE TECHNIQUES" in the end... like bleach-bypass, cross-processing ... (with not so good results) ... ok.. I'm smiling here.. as everyone here is at a lot more advanced level when it comes to "CREATIVE TECHNIQUES"
... it looks like the grading there is basically luma based,
but it still has a lot of information, solid technology background and where and what modifications are needed.

so it feels like grading you would be doing in a media/broadcast studio...
(so far I didn't see how to choose and setup "rooms" for movie/scenes for example)
.. you won't get the grading of the movie "Hugo" from here...

however that was just a quick look through it (maybe I'm missing something),
but still for me it's very interesting.
(there are some versions online, so you can take a look at it too)

thanks again.
I think a lot of the examples are overdone myself, but I find that to be the case in most books and I think the onus is on the reader to learn discretion. I feel the same way about a lot of the Dan Margulis examples but still find his techniques invaluable.

The important thing with any tutorial/book you read is to internalize the concept and apply it to your own work. Every image is different and will require a slightly different workflow. Ultimately the more of these examples you work with and study the broader your color vocabulary becomes. The more you can recognize different techniques and talk specifically about what you want the easier it is to get the look you want.


By the way, he does discuss setting up projectors for color grading and the DCI P3 color space. If you're setting up a space for video or projection you should definitely do more reading than just this book, though. The Creative Cow forums are a good starting point.
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