RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 02-05-2014, 05:41 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Im going to post this link first as I realized I wrote a lot and it might be useful to you or not but I thought i'd leave that up to you and post this link first.
Eraanexact posted this link for me in another thread, actually yesterday I think
and Im halfway through watching these and have found them incredibly helpful
Its not new information for me and all part o things I understood and do already in some work, but I often found in regards to good fashion images its hard to find a good tutorial that I relate to in terms of how I shoot or the imagery Im working towards as "fashion" has a pretty loose meaning when looking on the internet and theres a taste and style for everyone but I was still having fraystrations and questions about my post process. You can do a 7 day free trial for Lynda.com which is awesome.. I had actually been to some retouching tutorials on this site before but it wasn't these and these spoke to me better and I really like his style of teaching and the emphasis he places certain things. He also share s a lot of his knowledge on printing images as to what some things will serve you better in your retouching and that is just really valuable. I definitely recommend getting into it.

http://www.lynda.com/Timothy-Sexton/1131948-1.html



I saw this thread and was curious myself as I don't use kuler that often but when I do I tend to only use it for pre planning or trying to apply to colors I see in an image Im working on already.

I haven't seen a way of specifically transferring a Kuler color palette I like and applying it to an existing image that doesn't lend itself to those colors already. If you're fortunate enough to have the time and ability this is something that helps to do beforehand then you can pick the location, and styling that all fit into the palette you want and that what a good art director is for, granted I never get to have one and so you got do what you can with what you can and be your own. This all used to dictate what lights you used and film stock but now we have a a lot of freedom in post so its not really such a big factor in going for a look in post but as you probably understand already, the more you can get in camera the better the backend will be. I plan as much as I can, try to control as much as I can but when you work with clients with small budgets and short time frames theres just a lot of things you aren't going to hav egging in your favor. I try to welcome mistakes when shooting or the ability to adapt to give myself latitude in post to see if theres something that might be better for the image as its evolved. Sometimes even if there's a look Ive talked with a client about if we end up with something different as we just had to adapt on the shoot day

Most fashion photography does still echo from "looks" from its film history, you're seeing some stuff now that wasn't practical before, which makes someone like Guy Bourdin even more incredible in how he was able to manipulate his prints, but for the most part, I like you agree that there are certain looks you see often and are staples and still just digital ways to apply to older techniques. there a few mentions of starting with mood boards, this is funny to me because while it is helpful and can allow you to make some decisions beforehand these mood images are usually always from images that have the looks I'm sure you're referring to and were already trying to start form. So in a sense that answer is saying, "start with looking at a look you are trying to achieve, then set up to shoot that type of look." And ...yeah..but still. sure its something to consider and I think much more important if you're shooting film than digital as the camera and film and type of light would all influence the print without any further manipulating. But you're asking about digital retouching.

Most of the still biggest names started on film and developed their look on film and when and if they do shoot digital, have the benefit of the best digital capture and retouchers who just do this really well but often keep within a style consistent with the photographers work. Part of that is they are just working from how they shoot and the photographer still wanted the same feel, but they are still able to do it. And even still today the film is being digitally enhanced in post so it still has some secret sauce applied and doesn't answer how that little ninja gets it from the raw capture.. I share your frustration and eagerness to create comparable color and tone in my work and its hard to be patient when you feel its at your fingertips. Like you, I don't think just being patient and continuing to work means you shouldn't ask questions or not try to find ways to improve on how you shoot/edit so you can have more freedom and facility to create.

Analyizing peoples screen captures won't really help you much. There's some info to get from it, It is a cool glimpse you'd normally only get from being an assistant on something like this and its nice to get an idea of what kind of work they do to the raw file before its retouched further but won't help you with the how. you can guess a lot which might give you stuff to play with next time you shoot, that image of the Paolo roversi screen shot (posted earlier in this thread), the colors of the scene are probably pretty close to what it looked like before the digital tech tweaked it all blue. I often don't get the luxury of having a digital tech on a shoot but I can't tell you how amazing it is to have one that really knows what they are doing. It opened my eyes a lot as I tend to not lean on the "depends on the lighting" defense you get on here sometimes.. While it is true and you can't force one thing to look like another ( nor should you try if what you have lends itself to something else). As a photographer your lighting's just going to evolve and get better, but theres still post processing you can do on images that aren't ideal that still can make them quite beautiful in the end and at least something you can be happy with or even make a client happy and be better than a lot of lookbook shoots. Shooting and exposing properly in natural light or with something simple like a beauty dish aren't big mysteries on lighting in terms of processing color and having that digital tech that can really pull the most out of that raw file is just eye opening and you'll notice in retouching how it takes to adjustments better.

You may already know this but try and retouch in 16bit, you can do a color adjustment that would look great on a 16 bit image that would just not take as well to the image in 8 bit and be absolutely terrible on a jpg ( not that you should ever edit in jpg just to point out the difference in working with an images available information) .. Raw has the most information to push and pull from and that's the benefit of trying to do as much as you can in a capture program ( i recommend Capture one and lightroom 4, I have things I like and dislike about both. but both allow trials to test them) a bit less information on capture one and it takes a bit more adjusting to tools if you're used to camera raw and photohsop, but a really nice system and to me gives better skin tone and i prefer it. I also started using that before lightroom, sometimes for me i'll edit in lightroom just to take advantage of that selective color slider and its vibrance slider can be really great to take advantage of if I'm going for a vibrance I don't have a sartisfactor yway of doing in capture one, Ill pick the one I edit with based on what i want the final to be, or sometimes time is a factor too and being able to go from lightroom to photoshop as easily as they allow is just really nice.

but..I digress..

I have found that, if you look at the roversi behind the scenes image, there is a lot of dark grey and Annie liebovitz does that quite often too for her backgrounds and clothes. Ive found in editing that this does lend itself to take on those blue and green shadow tones really nicely and you can get some of the richness in the color that sometimes just can come off really dull otherwise and that is a very common look but you can still dip blue into most any shadow using curves, levels, ore selective color and thats's used quite a bit, but if you're looking that screen capture and the final Roversi image which is worked on more outside of the capture program ( I'm assuming from how it looks) and wondering why the blues in your image don't come out the same you would have to look at your image and recognize the difference in staring with a palet that was already a lot of neutral and dark grey.
You don't get to see the adjustments they did to get there from a behind the scenes screen capture and that's what that digital tech is there doing, and most know how to do and have their own presets for common treatments. As This is their skill set too and like any preset it can't be forced onto every setup but they'll have something else that works and is a good look for what you're shooting and thats just their experience and value. As erraanexact said he does most of them do go through tears and create their own presets base don common looks they see or like and are curious about. but I understand this is what you're asking about and I don't have ones I like to default to and there are common ones Im still trying to find a way to get it I like as well.
They make them in lightroom or capture one and they don't always fit every image right away but they do tweak on site to get a look everyone likes and haply to all the images coming in during the shoot, and yes finding good examples of these is really hard to come by, no decent tech hands you an image with a preset straight form lightroom and capture one and says, here's a good look as they've us sully come up with their own that works better for the desired "look".. Ive looked at the vcso ones and other downloadable ones to look at settings and see what I can take and apply to create what I want but still don't have sets that I'm content using and have a lot of questions. Most presets even the ones you buy are still meant as only starting points as they can't guarantee a fix to all images.

You can also see that the makeup artist already did a lot of the work to get the skin paleness in the right direction. This is also something I was totally blown away with the first time I worked with a professional makeup artist. if You work with younger brands that don't have much budget they don't really understand this cost, as a good makeup artist is fairly expensive for the day, but they are so worth it and I have a lot of respect for them and you'll see your image take shape easier especially in fashion, apparently, the face is the part we look at first when looking at an ad or photo. Even then though depending on the look you were trying to achieve there can still be a lot of work and its not the answer to what you're asking.

working with a good makeup artist and lighting and a good raw file you still have to make it look good and finish the image the way you were attempting to.

If you really have a kuler profile you want to force onto an image that is a different color palette you can play with masking out all the areas like you've been talking about. Sometimes this is just needed anyway and is quite a common practice. Photohsop has a match and replace color feature that sometimes can be awesome for this but sometimes looks terrible and you're resigned to the other color tools and sometimes even desaturating the selection fully and using curves to try and create the color you want for that area. I find this can be a good way to get an even color to an area, or piece of clothing, but sometimes depending on the rest of the image can be too far to the hand tinted black and white look and not really work with the rest of the edit or seem that natural. Sometimes just fading in the original color a bit can give it back some life but sometimes you'll have to find another way too.

definitely check out that link to the tutorials i posted earlier as you might find just going back and getting into some of the common practices again might make something click or show you a new thing to consider.
Reply With Quote top
  #22  
Old 02-05-2014, 06:01 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowLight View Post

... can you imagine that he takes a few regular snaps, and hands them off to some retoucher to decide on the colours?


so maybe you are looking in the wrong place when it comes to the creative side of post processing... I think this is more of a photographer's decision to get his vision through, than retoucher's "job" to make such corrections?
Roversi is amazing and without presuming to know anything about his actual technical digital knowledge which could be quite extensive a lot of the old school that became big in fashion as film photographers ( which is still most of them) didn't have to learn the digital post aspect to stay relevant. They had made their name and still got the jobs with the budgets and resources to rely on these digital techs and retouchers as it became more common or the way a publication was starting to work. Some old school guys Ive met don't even like to check email on a computer let alone get into capture one, but they have their guy thats always with them and they trust and work well with.

It is true they are still working towards the photographers vision but the digital tech/retoucher is still able to create it for them and is a huge asset. which is the mystery the poster is trying to solve. Granted Roversi's understanding of his own work and what he wants to shoot will give the retoucher more to work with than someone less adept sometimes the image is made in these processing tweaks.

it is a general question and you could get lost in those details I do agree there are common looks to fashion spreads that digital techs have created their own presets they like for to use as starting points and will always have to tweak on set. And good resources for those are difficult to come by as it is tradecraft.
Reply With Quote top
  #23  
Old 02-05-2014, 06:46 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by eraanexact View Post
I think the reason that there's not more information about color is that it is basically kinda hard to explain. I don't believe it to be a "pass/fail" situation, it's more of a being right by degrees, if that makes any sense.

When the studio is a bit slow, I like to make capture one presets based on fashion tears. I just play around with the settings and can get pretty close. I think that's what most of these photographers and their digitechs are doing too, just playing around until they find something they like.
I have tried this tear breakdown process myself to limiting degrees of satisfaction as a way to better understand things that might work for my own processing and not so much to look like someone else's work. Lightroom has a pretty large community of presets, for better or worse that can be good tools to look at settings and what they can do that you might not have realized. The Capture one community is more secretive and tutorials on it are much less prevalent, but it's understandable.

I was wondering if you might share a bit of your process in looking at one of these fashion tear looks you find and feel inspired to create a preset for as I think it is relevant to what the post is about in creating a common or just relevant lok. id be very curious to hear from you on it if you felt so inclined.

the link you had sent me to from another post on the Timothy Sexton tutorials were just what I was looking for. Its not necessarily new information, just some new insights and I really connect with his approach and philosophy and feels more relevant to my own work.
Reply With Quote top
  #24  
Old 02-06-2014, 07:46 AM
Benny Profane's Avatar
Benny Profane Benny Profane is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: third stone from the sun
Posts: 582
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Wow. If some people posting here just sat at their computers and fooled around with various adjustments and blending methods, they'd figure it out, sort of. Try it. That's how the people you are trying to imitate did it.

Stop typing so much. Look at things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r*po View Post
but..I digress..
Yes you do, yes you do………...
Reply With Quote top
  #25  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:48 AM
AKMac's Avatar
AKMac AKMac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London and Argyll, Scotland.
Posts: 309
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
Wow. If some people posting here just sat at their computers and fooled around with various adjustments and blending methods, they'd figure it out, sort of. Try it. That's how the people you are trying to imitate did it.

Stop typing so much. Look at things.



Yes you do, yes you do………...
I'm trying to remember the name of the famous gentleman who was quoted as having written, "I apologise for writing such a long letter, but I didn't have time to compose a short one." (or words to that effect)
Reply With Quote top
  #26  
Old 02-06-2014, 02:28 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
Wow. If some people posting here just sat at their computers and fooled around with various adjustments and blending methods, they'd figure it out, sort of. Try it. That's how the people you are trying to imitate did it.

Stop typing so much. Look at things.

.
I do much more of that than typing.. thanks.
sorry if nothing was of use to you.
Reply With Quote top
  #27  
Old 02-06-2014, 02:52 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
I'm trying to remember the name of the famous gentleman who was quoted as having written, "I apologise for writing such a long letter, but I didn't have time to compose a short one." (or words to that effect)
You did some really lovely work on your site for Dima Hohlov, Wonderland, and Daniel Thomas Smith that I think would be relevant to the topic if you were willing to share anything on how you approached handling the color and tone on those jobs.

it's just a really nice way of having a soft pastel pallet while still keeping
colors vibrant and good blacks in way that will look elegant and translate to print.
Reply With Quote top
  #28  
Old 02-06-2014, 03:48 PM
AKMac's Avatar
AKMac AKMac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London and Argyll, Scotland.
Posts: 309
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by r*po View Post
You did some really lovely work on your site for Dima Hohlov, Wonderland, and Daniel Thomas Smith that I think would be relevant to the topic if you were willing to share anything on how you approached handling the color and tone on those jobs.
The look for those jobs wasn't of my making. The photographers had already made the big colour/tone decisions and I took over the retouching after the files had been processed in Capture One and ACR respectively.
Reply With Quote top
  #29  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:40 PM
AKMac's Avatar
AKMac AKMac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London and Argyll, Scotland.
Posts: 309
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

.....but most of what's done involves no special techniques...theoretically you can achieve 90% of the colour/tone looks using just curves and some masking.
There's no secret sauce.
Reply With Quote top
  #30  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:41 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
The look for those jobs wasn't of my making. The photographers had already made the big colour/tone decisions and I took over the retouching after the files had been processed in Capture One and ACR respectively.
Thank you of responding.

Im aware its usually the case that the base of it is already there and made in capture. It could have not been the case on one of them so thanks for sharing.

I respect your humility but Im sure the end result has much more to it than what was delivered to you and Id find information on your approach to that valuable.

Theres a lot of people on here that get annoyed at people with less experience and I do get that, I have no misconceptions about the time, skill and personal aspect to both photography and retouching. However, it can be hard to find information from someone that can actually do a nice end result and thats always just really valuable.

Some of us, while doing as much as we can to push our own work and get better still want to learn from those we think do it better and work at a higher level. less content with "sort of" figuring it out , open to actual relevant information on how to do it better, no one's ever gotten to a better level by being satisfied with "sort of."

If I hadnt left such a long winded post earlier ( which i find is the only way to get to useful information on here) you wouldn't have responded and I wouldn't have seen your work and I think getting more information from you would be valuable.

If there's more you're willing to share on how you took the from what was delivered to you to the final thats valuable information and why people find their way to these forums.

thanks
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how can i separate colors from light ? mantra Photo Retouching 33 08-13-2012 09:52 AM
How to make colors like Jordan Voth shinphotography Photo Retouching 17 02-13-2012 09:22 PM
How do I get the same colors fotosobczak Photo Retouching 8 02-02-2012 05:01 PM
Color matching process/tutorial/guidelines Siciliana Photo Retouching 1 10-26-2011 10:48 AM
how to achieve the same colors and contrast? przemekb Photo Retouching 27 11-26-2010 05:17 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved