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Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

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  #11  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:00 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

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Originally Posted by julianmarsalis View Post
Personally I am old school d&B learn it love it and nothing is to much of a challenge to fix but its not fast but gives meticulous control in a retouch.
I don't think you're as old school as you think. Drum scans used to be very common. It was pretty typical to see 6x7 film drum scanned to 100MB or so file size as a lot of these places charged based on approximate file size given the variation in film formats. If you were really really zooming in, you'd get to a point where it was just grain, and retouching at that level could make it look really funky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julianmarsalis View Post
Well like I always say to each there own here is a great retouch by natalia aka godmother here took 5 - 6 hours:

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
Final: http://www.nataliataffarel.com/MM_NINE_NRT_Final.jpg

Original: http://www.nataliataffarel.com/MM_NINE_NRT_Orig.jpg

Psd: http://www.nataliataffarel.com/PSDMM.zip

15 minutes gets you 15 minutes retouch.
I think you're limiting yourself here. That image isn't good, but I am willing to bet it was a demonstration image, especially given the availability of a layered version. If this was for a client, she wouldn't leave have cloned hair strands or partially done lashes. normally with lashes you'd match the tapering and sharpness to be appropriate to the photo. To me it looks like it probably corresponds to something on her youtube channel, but that isn't an example of finished work. I'm not necessarily a fan of hers, but it would be below the quality of other things that have been posted by her, as nothing matches up. I'm sure you can do better than that.
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  #12  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:10 AM
julianmarsalis julianmarsalis is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

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Originally Posted by kav View Post
I don't think you're as old school as you think. Drum scans used to be very common. It was pretty typical to see 6x7 film drum scanned to 100MB or so file size as a lot of these places charged based on approximate file size given the variation in film formats. If you were really really zooming in, you'd get to a point where it was just grain, and retouching at that level could make it look really funky.



I think you're limiting yourself here. That image isn't good, but I am willing to bet it was a demonstration image, especially given the availability of a layered version. If this was for a client, she wouldn't leave have cloned hair strands or partially done lashes. normally with lashes you'd match the tapering and sharpness to be appropriate to the photo. To me it looks like it probably corresponds to something on her youtube channel, but that isn't an example of finished work. I'm not necessarily a fan of hers, but it would be below the quality of other things that have been posted by her, as nothing matches up. I'm sure you can do better than that.
I scratch my head at your comments and say we agree to disagree pretty much to each his own and Nat work is wonderful not sure what your smoking. The psd is excellent resource for learning different applied techniques have to give her mad respect for sharing actual work rather than just blowing smoke like many to make themselves feel better....

Last edited by julianmarsalis; 04-18-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:36 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

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Originally Posted by julianmarsalis View Post
I scratch my head at your comments and say we agree to disagree pretty much to each his own and Nat work is wonderful not sure what your smoking.
I still say that was a test image. While I said I'm not a fan, I don't think she simply missed a couple of those things. I think it just for demonstration so they didn't matter so much. You may still disagree with me, but I'll try to explain the comments. Okay on the eyelashes, eyelashes taper off toward the tip, and these are solid lines. She's obviously got a steady enough hand to make clean sweeps with them (many people mess up at this not knowing how to draw, it's easiest if you do it from the wrist), but they're noticeably sharper than the rest and come out to single lines. They also lack the influence you'd get from the skin. Skin always reflects on the lashes. They aren't simply lit in a vacuum. The hair has some stuff that is obvious, but that's not so important.

Let's look at lighting. This looks similar to an emulation of what was happening in makeup and sometimes perfume advertisements a few years ago, although they were typically still different from this. On the face she's centered the highlight on the forehead and simplified the bone structure of the skull. You get the specular qualities of highlights from convex curvature, so when you do stuff like this, you're essentially changing the topology of the face. Because of this, it's important to be aware of what the changes indicate to the viewer. To me it still has a very studio light kind of feel, especially in the eyes, when it appears to be trying to emulate the enveloping quality of natural lighting. You'd still have that alternating gathering of shadows and specular reflections as it wraps around bony spots, but with something like window lighting or diffused natural light in general, you'd still have a slight gradation there. In the way these areas were simplified, the lighting goes a bit flat and implies some odd shapes.

The only other thing I wanted to mention was that last time anyone claimed natalia spent 5-7 hours on a beauty image like this, she corrected the figure herself to something like 2 hours. I can't remember the thread. I don't commonly suggest people spend this long as they're likely to end up with an overdone image.
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:42 AM
julianmarsalis julianmarsalis is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

Now I recall why I stopped reading these forums along with others the thread is here dated Apr 16 12 04:25 am


http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?th...6#post16996068

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalia_Taffarel
Thanks everyone for the feedback, but lets get the thread back in track.

If it becomes a "Natalia Appreciation thread" it puts other people off sharing themselves.

The retouch took like 5 or 6 hours but I wasn't sure where to take it so I went back and forward many times.

xx

I don't see that magical recount in the thread was it another one....

But yeah opinions are like blank everyone has one again we agree to disagree...
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  #15  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:51 AM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

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Originally Posted by julianmarsalis View Post
Now I recall why I stopped reading these forums along with others the thread is here dated Apr 16 12 04:25 am


http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?th...6#post16996068




I don't see that magical recount in the thread was it another one....

But yeah opinions are like blank everyone has one again we agree to disagree...
I'm not on modelmayhem at all, so this is the first time I've seen that thread. The statement on there makes sense. She went back and forth on it a lot, so the time makes more sense now. I've seen other work by her, and she can do better than that.
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  #16  
Old 04-18-2012, 10:56 AM
julianmarsalis julianmarsalis is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

Figures as much that says it all I guess it figures when peeps don't even know the basic set of features in photoshop like views and windows next up multiple monitors. Hell yeah Nat done better work her lesser work is still better than 99% of the people I come across.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2012, 12:42 PM
julianmarsalis julianmarsalis is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

A few good videos to watch from youtube the supporting layers is just awesome help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0byiIcTJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ei0yN2ULY
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:33 AM
Lidkin Lidkin is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

Hi))) I'd like to miss the discussion about Natalia Tafarrel and reply to the FCP, because I worry about that too.
If I make usual wedding images for a private collection, retouch doesn't take more then 30 min per image.
But if I make (or try to make) something like Hi-End-Beauty, it takes 6-10 hrs (sometimes even 15 hrs) and depends from original image. So I wonder - is it normal or not? Maybe I should to optimize my work-flow somehow?
For example, look at this image:http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/a...Retoch/9-s.jpg
Crop of face: http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/a...toch/9-1-s.jpg
It took 8 hrs, but RAW was pretty good and main problem was skin of face. Do you think that it is possible to make retouch of this image faster?
Thank you very much in advance:-)
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2012, 10:18 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

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Originally Posted by Lidkin View Post
For example, look at this image:http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/a...Retoch/9-s.jpg
Crop of face: http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/a...toch/9-1-s.jpg
It took 8 hrs, but RAW was pretty good and main problem was skin of face. Do you think that it is possible to make retouch of this image faster?
Thank you very much in advance:-)
The crop helps me here. It looks like you're just going through and blending everything no matter what it is. Why not take some time to consider what you want from the image first? I don't mind the color aside from the slightly tacky lip color in the retouched version, but I want to know, is this how you envisioned it when you started? Do you start off with an idea of where you're going? Do you consider what each change will contribute to the image? With the possible exception of the color correction, I can't see what you wanted to do with this image, and I think that's important. Otherwise you just end up zoned into it smoothing smoothing without thinking about what is actually happening.
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  #20  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:38 AM
Lidkin Lidkin is offline
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Re: Head Shot Retouching time...How much time

Quote:
Originally Posted by kav View Post
The crop helps me here. It looks like you're just going through and blending everything no matter what it is. Why not take some time to consider what you want from the image first? I don't mind the color aside from the slightly tacky lip color in the retouched version, but I want to know, is this how you envisioned it when you started? Do you start off with an idea of where you're going? Do you consider what each change will contribute to the image? With the possible exception of the color correction, I can't see what you wanted to do with this image, and I think that's important. Otherwise you just end up zoned into it smoothing smoothing without thinking about what is actually happening.
Hello Kav and thanks for reply:-) Of course I have an idea and give for that enough time too. So I realize that my every step will influence on a photograph and think it over before to start.
I wanted to correct color balance and smooth the skin in this image, to make it more vivid. (BTW, I have changed lips color because colors of the skin and the lips was almost the same).
But i can't understand why you have thought that I didn't know what I want to do... So I can't get correctly what's wrong with this image. I will be happy if you explain it;-)
Actually my question was this retouching took a lot of time (cause I was retouching skin with D&B method), so I would like to know it is too long or not.
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