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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress?

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  #21  
Old 06-06-2012, 09:48 AM
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Benny Profane Benny Profane is offline
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

Oh, hey, if you want to learn a valuable skill, color management would be a good one. It's just not retouching.
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  #22  
Old 06-06-2012, 03:06 PM
Andymania Andymania is offline
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

Benny,

Without a doubt. I am studying this stuff as we speak. I was just wondering how far down the rabbit hole should I go.
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2012, 03:24 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
I don't get it. Why is this even a concern for retouchers? Do all of your work in the RGB space you normally work in, and just hand it off. How can you possibly know how to calibrate to the final printing process? That's for the prepress guys. And, there may be ten to thirty printing plants printing the final ad. How could you figure all that out? Well, you could, but, then you be a color management technician, which is a job all it's own. It's not retouching. And, don't let anybody tell you it is.
You should at least have some idea how to look at a proof and what will cause problems later on, especially in terms of excessive saturation which many people misinterpret if they're just looking at their monitor. It's easy to miss problems in bright reds or blues looking at a display. It's also easy to make them worse during rgb adjustments.
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  #24  
Old 06-06-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

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Originally Posted by kav View Post
You should at least have some idea how to look at a proof and what will cause problems later on, especially in terms of excessive saturation which many people misinterpret if they're just looking at their monitor. It's easy to miss problems in bright reds or blues looking at a display. It's also easy to make them worse during rgb adjustments.
Lord, I could go on about the state of the magazine biz at the moment. If Borders was still alive, I'd advise you to go down to your local branch and just look at a variety of magazines and journals, concentrating on printing quality. Hey, Barnes and Noble is still alive, right? Check that out. Very wide range of printing quality, and, as you stare at that rack, you're looking at the products of maybe thirty printing plants, although the mass market stuff is printed by the big two or three guys. All of that is very expensive to produce, and, for the last thirty years, cube dwellers in all of the big publishers have been patted on the head when they succeed in reducing those costs, and, in the end, the protests from the art directors have been laughed at. Hey, if they were politically astute, they wouldn't make a noise. Over saturated blues? Trust me, all of that subtlety has been thrown to the wayside. Sometimes I think that this new desaturated look in a lot of stuff is a roundabout way to deal with less ink.

Besides, it's all fading into the past, anyway. Do you have an IPad? That's the present and future. That was the dream amongst production people who occupied cubes back at a large publisher I once worked for way back in '88 - no printing and delivery costs. There it is, and it looks fantastic. Furgetabout GCR.
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  #25  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:03 PM
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

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Originally Posted by kav View Post
You should at least have some idea how to look at a proof and what will cause problems later on, especially in terms of excessive saturation which many people misinterpret if they're just looking at their monitor. It's easy to miss problems in bright reds or blues looking at a display. It's also easy to make them worse during rgb adjustments.
A more technical response would be, well, it's just a shot in the dark, anyway, but an educated one. I look at cmyk proofs every day, and they are calibrated to our printer's needs (closed system, large manufacturer), but I can't imagine how that would work for a generic ad that will appear in a lot of places, including web. As somebody said above, the proof that wins is the proof signed off on, but, that's a strange game I never understood. I think that there are creatives who don't even look at the final product. They're on to the next thing.
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  #26  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:12 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
Lord, I could go on about the state of the magazine biz at the moment. If Borders was still alive, I'd advise you to go down to your local branch and just look at a variety of magazines and journals, concentrating on printing quality. Hey, Barnes and Noble is still alive, right? Check that out. Very wide range of printing quality, and, as you stare at that rack, you're looking at the products of maybe thirty printing plants, although the mass market stuff is printed by the big two or three guys. All of that is very expensive to produce, and, for the last thirty years, cube dwellers in all of the big publishers have been patted on the head when they succeed in reducing those costs, and, in the end, the protests from the art directors have been laughed at. Hey, if they were politically astute, they wouldn't make a noise. Over saturated blues? Trust me, all of that subtlety has been thrown to the wayside. Sometimes I think that this new desaturated look in a lot of stuff is a roundabout way to deal with less ink.
You know I'm aware of this right? I was referring more to high saturation causing clipping when converted. When it comes to magazines, the conversions aren't always done well. I've seen the variance, and it is typically possible to gauge what won't create major problems when they are rushing the job through as quickly as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
A more technical response would be, well, it's just a shot in the dark, anyway, but an educated one. I look at cmyk proofs every day, and they are calibrated to our printer's needs (closed system, large manufacturer), but I can't imagine how that would work for a generic ad that will appear in a lot of places, including web. As somebody said above, the proof that wins is the proof signed off on, but, that's a strange game I never understood. I think that there are creatives who don't even look at the final product. They're on to the next thing.
It doesn't have to refer specifically to an ad. Typically you'd make the rgb look good, then make adjustments for cmyk. When you're staring at an image long enough, it's quite easy to go too crazy on your adjustments.

Did you ever pick up one of the 3d apps beside keyshot?
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  #27  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:37 PM
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

Nah, no 3D. That's being mismanaged before my eyes. Sad.
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  #28  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:45 PM
kav kav is offline
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
Nah, no 3D. That's being mismanaged before my eyes. Sad.
Aww . How so? It's been becoming more and more mainstream. After Effects gained its own raytracing engine with CS6. Amusingly IBL was also added when photoshop isn't even ideal for hdri adjustments.
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2012, 07:52 PM
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

Even a good contract proof is no insurance (unless you are going to the press check).

For my book, I got beautiful contract proofs (heck, I built a custom profile for it). Book was printed overseas. No way I could get to the press check. The final printing and the contract proofs were a mile off. I was super pissed. The publisher didn’t give a crap. The best proof does you no good if you can’t be on press to insure there is a good match.
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2012, 07:53 PM
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Re: How much do I need to know about cmyk/prepress

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
Do you have an IPad? That's the present and future.
Too bad it isn’t color managed:

http://regex.info/blog/2012-03-27/1964
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