RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

How do I get such analog colors?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 02-01-2014, 05:46 AM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

cool.. I agree that neither of these are likely to actually be digital and are film and I don't think the original poster thinks someone will share a magical lightroom preset that makes him alasdair Mclellan or David sims. Dan Martensen shoots on a pentax 6x7 a lot too and his style is different, that's just how it works and a very cool aspect to photography.

A lot of times the style these guys end up with they've picked up pieces from who taught them or just how they found they like to take pictures, but we have the internet now with forums and things that are just one more area to get information from. I think its ok to try and copy and emulate styles you like as you'll find even if you wanted it to look exactly like it you're just going to end up with you're own way of doing it. you pick up what you like and try to move past what doesn't work as well for your images.

But clients don't often know the difference and They don't have the time to allow to shoot film or budget to want to print it then scan it to retouch it as it usually is for these publications. Sometimes, it is just a matter of, this is the file I have and this is what the client likes and wants it to get close to and it seems possible.
Reply With Quote top
  #12  
Old 02-01-2014, 08:29 AM
insmac insmac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 190
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

Granted, the client thing might be irritating. Technically when someone wants a specific look shooting the real film is in no means more expensive than an usual digital back rental. It's in fact a lot cheapier, I shoot medium format a lot (Mamiya) and I'd have to do like 50 rolls per session to reach the price tag for renting hasselblad Hx series.

Let's leave the retouching aside, it's a last step in the process, but the foundation is light. Have a look here:
http://www.artpartner.com/artists/im...dair-mclellan/
What can you tell about the lighting in a lot of these pictures? Yeah, it's pretty obvious: broad daylight, clear sky, no clouds. I've counted 24-25 shots on this section only made that way (that gives us the same amount of photoshoots). And yes, HMI for some of the campaigns to mimic the "golden hour" kind of look.
So that's the real starting point - gives the image deeper shadows, warmth and pleasant skin tones.
Reply With Quote top
  #13  
Old 02-01-2014, 12:36 PM
eraanexact eraanexact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 195
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

This topic is one that I've put a lot of thought and energy into, and I've found a way that works for me. The studio I work at received a job recently that was shot on film, and since then I've been trying to emulate the feel of film, specifically kodak portra. The main ingredient to this pizza is to process your raw relatively flat with low contrast.

I'm attaching three images, the first one corresponds to this:

I did a google image search for "unretouched beauty photo", and about halfway down the page, got this image of madonna. I did a slight curve to take away some contrast (looks like a reverse S curve) to make it a bit more flat like how I would process.

The second image attached is the image with one global curve adjustment layer added. The third image is a screen shot of the curve that I made. I've found that bringing down the top of the curve on the individual channels makes the color more "round", if that makes any sense. I add a point in the three quarter tones in the individual color channels and adjust to taste. This exact curve will probably not work on most images, but the approach is what I'm trying to convey. You'll probably want to do more targeted adjustments underneath the global curve to fine tune your image, but for this instance, I wanted to demonstrate the power that a single global curve can have on the look of an image.

You can add a layer of simulated film grain on top of the layer stack to further emulate the film look.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg one.jpg (80.0 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg two.jpg (83.2 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg curve.jpg (56.7 KB, 96 views)
Reply With Quote top
  #14  
Old 02-03-2014, 04:38 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eraanexact View Post
You'll probably want to do more targeted adjustments underneath the global curve to fine tune your image, but for this instance, I wanted to demonstrate the power that a single global curve can have on the look of an image.

You can add a layer of simulated film grain on top of the layer stack to further emulate the film look.
Thank for contributing and thank you for the examples. That's a nice color treatment, I know its from a less than desirable jpg found online so its not ideal but I really appreciate you sharing the curve you tried. This is actually an interesting example as you could argue the colors in the untouched image are a bit analog as they are close to to the pink/blue of technicolor and you could push it that way too. You could also still argue that there is no such thing anymore since even film is retouched digitally for fashion anyway and sometimes it can be hard to tell as film altered digitally becomes less analog. if not for that video behind the scenes of the Lucky shoot I would have thought that campaign was digital by the color they put on it, and Maybe Im wrong and he actually never shoots digital.

An important aspect of film is it has a wider dynamic range than digital and it tends to create a smoother tone naturally, it does great things with skin that digital can be fussy with as well and time consuming to try and emulate. The range of film will give you information in the shadows and highlights as well and a common quick fix for digital is to try and crush the shadows and highlights a bit to try and emulate that. The medium format digital cameras though are pretty amazing and thats getting better all the time. But film will always have its own quality to it that is a life of its own. And even when shooting digitally it can sometimes be desirable to shoot with a digital back on an old film camera body to be able to use the great lenses that are big factor in the look for images form cameras like mamiya, lecia, and the pentax. If you were trying to emulate that and didn't have the choice to shoot that way you can try creating fake depth of field but its difficult to look natural and tends to make it look even more false.

Getting back to the examples, I wanted to take what eraanexact;320443 had done and continue with it a bit more as compared to the posters original color image. I would normally do most of this from capture but for this I put it into photoshop and added a selective color adjustment where I did pull down the highlights and push up the shadows. I then brought black down a bit in the mid tones to bring back some of the contrast lost in pushing up the shadows. I then pretty much just shifted the colors away from red more towards yellow while still trying to keep some red in the lips. I then copied the blue channel set it to soft light and did blur it slightly to soften the image a bit and put at a low opacity. the layer above that is a copy of the whole image set to exclusion at about 5% opacity. This just evens the overall tone a bit more as a quick fix but can sometimes be useful as something to play with. If I was actually editing this image further I wouldnt do that and just tone further with dodge and burn as it will give a better effect and give more control on the skin highlight areas as this exclusion method can appear flat which film is anything but. There is the age difference between the subjects but the dodge and burn would be how to proceed to get the "softness" in the skin of the other image.

I would also add film grain but that step can be tricky and often its added in a way overall that takes out some of the detail in the face that you want to keep and can look too much like a digital filter. If I'm shooting digital its because I want that clarity that digital has and don't want an overly false grain added but I like to add a little bit sometimes. Occasionally I will use NIK software just to add grain as I like the way it looks a bit more than the photoshop filter but don't particularly care for their "film looks". Normally grain is something I add in lightroom if Im working from that, it does s a pretty good job with it and you can control its in the details a bit more but I do think lightroom has a specific look to it that sometimes I don't want but thats just a personal thing. I personally prefer the way capture one does skin tones but I like the selective color sliders in lightroom and tend to want capture one to give me more control of the vibrance of colors.

All said and done its quite a bit of work to get to the look you want so if you're curious as a photographer it might just suit you better to just shoot on film if thats the main style you connect with and inspires you. Still worth noting though that even before digital, fashion photography on film was still retouched often an today you're still going to need to understand digital coloring....
or not, shoot on film and get hyped up, then big companies hire you and other people worry about all the other stuff and hire retouchers.

anyway attached is the images side by side, you can see the layers panel. first one is with the image as eraanexact edited it then the other is with the adjustments I added. ( I Had posted a link to using a tone and luminosity map to match photos but I didn't do any of that here). You can get into adding points on skin to try and totally match the color if you wanted to get real ocd with it but I don't.

sorry about the image size ( first time loading an image here and that 100k file limit is kind of harsh)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen-Shot-2014-02-03-at-12.35.35-PM.jpg (96.6 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg Screen-Shot-2014-02-03-at-12.52.52-PM.jpg (99.6 KB, 97 views)
Reply With Quote top
  #15  
Old 02-03-2014, 05:37 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

even in looking what I just did, theres more in what Id do to finish it but my own issue is that I don't really know how to finish it exactly, I can't something Im happy with but still not what I think works the best or is what id prefer to create.

It does come into that analog is hard to define and can mean a lot of different things, but Im approaching it pretty broadly.

but even looking at his missioni images as the color is different, it has a finished result that just looks really nice in its colors and is very common in good fashion photography and Im pretty sure isn't how they came out of the camera. It feels less analog as the colors and vibrance we don't necessarily associate with analog but it still captures some of that feel (quite possibly that is just the 6x7 but I think its in the post too, or at least thats what I find curious). there no film grain and it doesn't have the crushing highlights
http://www.fashiongonerogue.com/miss...dair-mclellan/

I also like this photographers work in terms of color and tone and he does shoot on digital.
http://aingeruzorita.com/rollacoaster-maja/

I might be getting of the topic the original poster wanted but this just is an example of a pretty common style that I've just never seen done well in an example. Even the retouch videos featured on this site.. no one does good fashion photography retouch examples. if anyone has any resources that might be helpful or know of other posts on this site that are good for this that would be awesome. It something they do well for digital film all the time in the color grading and those types of links might be helpful too. Movies like moonrise Kindgom and the Master both look very different but have great color grading along an "analog" feel and the theories are the same for grading.

Ikol would have to weigh in though on if they think that would be relevant/helpful to their post, I don't want to clutter this thread on stuff that won't be helpful and would start a new one.
Reply With Quote top
  #16  
Old 02-03-2014, 05:54 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by r*po View Post
Movies like moonrise Kindgom and the Master both look very different but have great color grading along an "analog" feel and the theories are the same for grading.
.
Damnit... I had to pick these two movies...
moonrise is 16 mm
and The Master is 65, which explains why it looks so incredible...
Reply With Quote top
  #17  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:30 AM
arson arson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by r*po View Post
...
I might be getting of the topic the original poster wanted but this just is an example of a pretty common style that I've just never seen done well in an example.
...
r*po none of the examples that were posted here correlate with each other, each one is completely different, it seems like people are just looking for a one click preset that would make them McLellan.

The only thing all of these photographs have in common is high contrast, which is very common in fashion photography.

The Zorita Rollacoaster photographs have a strong saturation on the outfits and lower on the skin and the 2013 spring campaign by McLellan have a warm color cast which can easily be added in post, these are not some special attributes of film photography.

Here's an idea, go and stage a photograph just like McLellan's, get the lighting and DOF just right, and post the raw, then we can work on it and move this thread forward.

Reply With Quote top
  #18  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:25 AM
eraanexact eraanexact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 195
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arson View Post
Here's an idea, go and stage a photograph just like McLellan's, get the lighting and DOF just right, and post the raw, then we can work on it and move this thread forward.

Lots of truth in that statement, arson. I know people hate to hear that, but there is quite a difference when you're working on a more established photographer's raws versus a photographer who hasn't really found their footing yet. As an example, Sebastian Kim's raws look way better than less experienced photographer's raws, and are thus easier to achieve the coveted "fashion" look that so many here are after.

The curve I posted earlier was not meant to be a magic bullet, only the beginning of one of countless ways to approach the problem. Though I will stress that having images that are appropriately cast and styled for fashion imagery is more than half the battle.
Reply With Quote top
  #19  
Old 02-04-2014, 12:14 PM
r*po r*po is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 45
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arson View Post
r*po none of the examples that were posted here correlate with each other, each one is completely different, it seems like people are just looking for a one click preset that would make them McLellan.

The only thing all of these photographs have in common is high contrast, which is very common in fashion photography.

The Zorita Rollacoaster photographs have a strong saturation on the outfits and lower on the skin and the 2013 spring campaign by McLellan have a warm color cast which can easily be added in post, these are not some special attributes of film photography.

Here's an idea, go and stage a photograph just like McLellan's, get the lighting and DOF just right, and post the raw, then we can work on it and move this thread forward.


No one is asking for a magic bullet...i myself have even said on here that the "magic bullet film filters" are not as good as editing yourself. only one person has given any actual attempt to try and share constructive ideas or steps and I just attempted to take that sample and move it a bit further towards the image the poster had asked about in terms of those colors. It was very appreciated and I certainly don't look at it as a fix all to create a film look.

Mcllelan has qualities the poster.. and I myself like. specifically they were asking about color in terms of an analog feel, not really a complicated question and a very common one....
The fact that he is a really good photographer and has developed his own look for a long time is understood but the topic isn't, "make me mclellean."
He shoots film.. ok..maybe that solved the posters question for him/her. But color grading is still done more often than not for campaigns like these, its done on film files, and its done on digital files and being constructive and sharing examples or links of good ways to do this is more helpful than throwing up your arms, and saying, well every photographer is different and raw files don't all look the same.

It's like everyone on here has been sued because at some point they offered advice and then a photographer got pissed he wasn't suddenly steven klein.

I understand that they are very different photographers, I understand high contrast is common in fashion photography ( I don't know if I'd call Mclellans style high contrast but its not really the point). They do have something else in common though is those images aren't how they looked before they were retouched.. Mclellans is possibly not color graded but I dont know and don't see a problem in for the sake of a forum exploring that is was and ways to achieve it well from a retouching standpoint.

lets forget about the other photographer I linked to if thats going to just confuse things. but theres more going on than just saturating the clothes and desaturating the skin... or maybe there isn't, but his light setups aren't very intensive often just one light and daylight, nothing revolutionary.

if thats all there is to it do you know any resources that show good ways to do this... as Ive mentioned before, most information available and 99.9% of the tutorials out there show a way of doing fashion retouching and the end result is never an image you'd see in the same arenas these guys shoot in and the point of coming to a forum like this is to try and get practical information form people that have actually worked on comparable images.

It's not assumed it won't involve work, it's just looking for more information / techniques from a reliable source.
Reply With Quote top
  #20  
Old 02-04-2014, 12:42 PM
eraanexact eraanexact is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 195
Re: How do I get such analog colors?

r*po, I only mentioned the quality of more established photographers' work because it does play a huge role in the final outcome. I was not trying to disparage the original intent of the question asked.

As far as a concise tutorial, I recommend Tim Sexton's videos on Lynda (though you might be able to find them as torrents etc)

http://www.lynda.com/Timothy-Sexton/1131948-1.html

He's the senior at Gloss:
http://glossstudio.com/div/print/mod...lo/p/891/c/-1/

I was pleased to see that my workflow was fairly similar to his, and I've definitely benefitted from the knowledge there and have since incorporated it into my own.

Keep in mind that the images used in the tutorials are not the kind that would be on the cover of W (i believe he used colleague's images who are budding photographers and not established), but the techniques and workflows are the same. It's probably very hard and prohibitively expensive to license a pre-retouched high fashion image from one of the more elite photographers for educational use.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Matching Colors From a Tear & Using Kuler Shot4Shot Photo Retouching 35 03-12-2014 09:00 AM
how can i separate colors from light ? mantra Photo Retouching 33 08-13-2012 09:52 AM
Photoshop: why is my cs5 histogram set always at colors? mantra Software 3 03-28-2012 09:03 AM
How to make colors like Jordan Voth shinphotography Photo Retouching 17 02-13-2012 09:22 PM
how to achieve the same colors and contrast? przemekb Photo Retouching 27 11-26-2010 05:17 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved