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HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

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  #1  
Old 07-11-2012, 10:05 AM
jhr jhr is offline
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HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Hello everyone,

Is it possible to measure HSB or HSL values by using the info palette in CS6? I've installed the Optional Plugins so HSB/HSL is now available through the Filter menu but there's no option to choose HSB or HSL under the info palette. It'd be useful to be able to measure the saturation for example.

Cheers
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:25 PM
redcrown redcrown is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Click on the eyedropper icon for any of the Info Pallet readings. A panel will pop-up offering a list of options. HSB color is one of the options.

Installing the HSB/HSL plugin has nothing to do with that.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:30 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

HSB is an option, HSL isn’t a ‘native’ option.

There is a difference between B and L. B (brightness) isn’t really the right thing to be doing here as Brightness is a perceptual phenomena so I’m not sure what the math is behind this set of values. Lightness is a property of a color, or a dimension of a color space, that is defined in a way to reflect the subjective brightness perception of a color for humans.

But if you prefer one over the other and it somehow helps you, well great.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:50 AM
jhr jhr is offline
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Smile Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Hi guys,

My first thought also was to click on the eyedropper icon in the info palette to change to HSB but it's not available for me. I got Grayscale, RGB, Web color, NMI, CMYK and Lab but no HSB. I've also tried to go into the paneloptions to see if HSB was an option there but it's not. I installed CS6 yesterday since I just reformatted my drive and the install was downloaded directly from Adobe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
HSB is an option, HSL isn’t a ‘native’ option.

There is a difference between B and L. B (brightness) isn’t really the right thing to be doing here as Brightness is a perceptual phenomena so I’m not sure what the math is behind this set of values. Lightness is a property of a color, or a dimension of a color space, that is defined in a way to reflect the subjective brightness perception of a color for humans.

But if you prefer one over the other and it somehow helps you, well great.
Andrew, would be more reliable to do the measuring in HSL instead of HSB then? Since HSL isn't a native option as you pointed out, how would you read the HSL values? Use the HSB/HSL filter and then do the measuring in the Blue channel (wich after conversion would be the Lightness channel)?
And also, is there any difference between the two except for the Lightness and Brightness, i'm thinking of the Hue and Saturation, or are they the same?
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:06 AM
jhr jhr is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Haha! Just figured out that NMI stands for HSB (translated from Swedish "N" stands for "Hue", "M" stands for Saturation and "I" stands for Brightness). Lost in translation I suppose

Last edited by jhr; 07-12-2012 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:48 AM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

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Andrew, would be more reliable to do the measuring in HSL instead of HSB then?
Depends on what you mean by reliable and what you expect to get from the values. Hence my comment about if you prefer one over the other and it somehow helps you, well great.

These are just pile of numbers and don’t necessarily tell us what a color looks like. What is Red? An English word we use to describe something pretty complex going on inside our brains.

In terms of difference in Hue or Saturation you should be able to test this. I might if I can find some time but it is quite possible they are not identical!

The big question to ask is, what are you trying to accomplish with these values? Is using Kilometers better or more reliable than using Miles?
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:54 AM
jhr jhr is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

I did a quick test. I used the HSB/HSL filter on the same image twice by duplicating the original. One time going from RGB to HSB and the other from RGB to HSL. By just looking through the channels and tabbig back and fourth, Hue seems to be the same while the Saturation and Lightness and Brightness are quite different (as expected from your previous posts).

Reliable is subjective I suppose. I was just trying to get my head around what you said about "Brightness is a perceptual phenomena" and "Lightness is a property of a color, or a dimension of a color space, that is defined in a way to reflect the subjective brightness perception of a color for humans".

My use of HSB/HSL would primary be to match a certain hue and/or saturation in a part of an image. Brightness and Lightness wouldn't be my main focus but It'd be interesting to know the difference between Brightness and Lightness and why the saturation is different in HSB from HSL. One would think that a certain colors saturation should be specific to that particular tone since we are still talking about "S" being saturation. Since were not talking about the Hue, Lightness and/or Brightness of that color how can they be different? Or am I wrong?

Fascinating stuff nonetheless

Last edited by jhr; 07-12-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:17 AM
redcrown redcrown is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Regarding the optional HSB/HSL plugin, the Hue values generated by the two different models (HSB vs. HSL) are the same, but Saturation and Brightness/Lightness are significantly different.

The values generated by an HSB conversion of the filter match the HSB values that the Photoshop color sampler (Info Pallet) show in the original image. The values generated by an HSL conversion do not match the color sampler.

I have only found 1 practical application of the HSB numbers and the HSB/HSL filter, and that is in generating saturation masks or analyzing the effect of different saturation methods in Photoshop.

I use the HSB/HSL filter to generate an HSB version of an image and copy the resulting Green (Saturation) channel as a saturation mask. There are several methods published for generating saturatio masks, but this is the only one that gives "true" results. By "true" I mean that the resulting grayscale values (ratios) of the mask match the actual saturation value that Photoshop shows with the color sampler.

When I increase saturation of an image under the HSB filter mask, the results seem better to me than results I get using other types of saturation masks.

The HSB values of the color picker are also useful in analyzing different methods of increasing saturation to see how each method changes hue and brightness along with saturation. There are at least 4 different methods to increase saturation. They are (1) the normal Hue/Sat adjustment, (2) the Channel Mixer, (3)LAB mode curves, (4) Adobe Camera Raw.

Comparing each method, with and without a saturation mask, and studying the color sampler HSB values can be very informative. For example, the LAB mode curves method often generates significant hue shifts.

Here is a video demo I made a few months ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh7Ta-Dz6_c
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:34 AM
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHoglund View Post
My use of HSB/HSL would primary be to match a certain hue and/or saturation in a part of an image.
Seems doable visually or with any set of values (they should match).
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:51 AM
jhr jhr is offline
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Re: HSB/HSL reading in info palette using CS6

Great stuff. I think you touched on a valuable point there redcrown, they are infact two different models (HSB and HSL). Even with that in mind, I'm still confused as to why the Hue channels are the same in both models but not the Saturation (see my previous post). That Lightness and Brightness differ doesn't surprise as much since they have different names :P But it would still be interesting to know the exact difference between the two.
I forgot to mention in my previous post the use of a saturation mask created from the conversion. I haven't done as much testing as you have, I'm sure. I've tried using HSB sat. masks and on occasion HSL but also masks generated from the Selective Color method. Mostly to even the saturation I might add. Have you had any luck with using the HSL sat. mask as opposed to the HSB one? Good video by the way.
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