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Let's analyze/compare Vogue level fashion ed's

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Old 12-20-2012, 03:43 PM
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PaulSnyder PaulSnyder is offline
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Re: Let's analyze/compare Vogue level fashion ed's

Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
It's because even they can't fully control or understand why one particular shot has a particular magic. But they have the eyes to see it, and the experience to capture it. This is the magic. No matter how much time you spend sampling colours, replicating tonal gradations and tweaking curves, you cannot reproduce the original 'wow'. I think that's why this idea of closely guarded secrets prevails.
So I had this whole big long response typed up, but then I read this post right before I submitted it and decided I would just reiterate this.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Very well put.

Also remember, the big leagues do not care HOW you're managing to create something. All they care about is how it looks at the end.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:01 PM
RobertAsh RobertAsh is offline
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Re: Let's analyze/compare Vogue level fashion ed's

Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
.....I think that's why this idea of closely guarded secrets prevails.
First of all, I think your post is extraordinary. Very well said.

The only place I'd differ (a little) is your last sentence. There are people like Dave Hill and undoubtedly others who don't tell people how they do what they do. They just don't. Other people might be able to reproduce or reconstruct it, but the original artists aren't telling. It may not be pervasive nowadays, but it still does exist.

There are other people like Natalia, Vitaly, Gry, etc. who do share their techniques. And there are people here who are very open and willing to teach others. And who can deconstruct just about any retouching anyone can throw at them.

For people who don't have resources like RetouchPro or some other channel I could easily see such people getting quite stuck and unable to figure out how certain looks get achieved. I know, I was one of them.

As far as learning -- getting yelled at, criticized, called lazy, etc. just for asking an honest, reasonable question, like what happened to the original poster of this thread, well, that sure makes it seem like an elitist 'club' if not an actual set of well-guarded secrets.

Thankfully that doesn't happen often here, most of the Photo Retouching forum questions get honest, helpful answers.

Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
That Dave Hill thing is a secret? It's so overused, it's yesterday, already. A lot of people have figured it out.
Maybe so. I didn't read all 2500 responses but I read quite a few over a period of time and the concensus in those seemed to be that people could get close to what he does, but not quite there. They were guessing at the rest, at least up until the latest time I followed that thread.

I do agree the 'almost Dave Hill' effect is overused. Joel Grimes has a similar look and that look shows up all over the place as well.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:09 PM
Shot4Shot Shot4Shot is offline
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Re: Let's analyze/compare Vogue level fashion ed's

I thought this post was long dead....this got nowhere QUICK and I chalked it up to laying in a sewer somewhere....but I appreciate the recent discussion. I think a lot of you are missing what I'm saying though, and maybe it's my fault. I agree with the majority of what most of you have said. Obviously it's an art and the majority of it is knowing your tools and how to use them. And obviously the retoucher's artistic eye/vision is the MOST important tool - just knowing techniques doesn't mean you'll retouch well or create a compelling image. And the last thing this post is about is claiming there are hidden secrets and asking how to learn them...however, the fact that the top retouching houses lock their layers and speak little to none of how they do what they do, lends itself strongly to the assumption that there is knowledge out there that is well kept. I also have worked with a number of retouchers and often run into the same situation with them saying "I don't share my layers" which I do have to laugh at a bit, cause I'm far from dealing with Pascal here...half the time I can't even use what they did. I think a lot of that is coming from self grown egos that are a bit undeserved if you ask me...but still it's hard to deny that if there are no "secrets" people are acting anything but transparent. Regardless, that is far from what this post is about! All I wanted to do was to start a discussion analyzing the common aspects of a few editorials (as posted) and compare them to the observed trends today....and discuss how we all think it was accomplished, as I thought it would be a good learning tool for all. The whole post wound up feeling a lot more like a witch hunt though. I'd love to get back on track though and start an actual intellectual discussion....did you notice all the transitons of the shadows.....look at the color grading.....there seems to be a lot of heavy blues in the shadows....There seems to be lots of split toning.....For split toning I find "X" to be most effective. That's what I was looking for. I know there's no "color in the lines" equation that you can apply to every image, and they're all unique but this should help us all understand what to look for and how we might be able to go about achieving the desired effect. Since I started playing the guitar I probably read 3-4 really good posts which helped my more than any other lesson/forum/post etc. One of them was a great post describing some creative uses of the pentatonic changed the way I play. Am I Jimi Hendrix now, obviously not!...Did it improve my playing and make me 20x happier with my sound? Absolutely.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:30 AM
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AKMac AKMac is offline
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Re: Let's analyze/compare Vogue level fashion ed's

I don't think you should interpret unwillingness to "share layers" as evidence of closely guarded secrets in a conspiratorial sense. I'd say it's more to do with privacy, intellectual property and self respect. I would never send a PSD, or any part of it, to a client.
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